Off Topic Politics Thread

[Beef]

Absolutely hilarious. Nearly everyone who has replied to my post or the content of it, has replied in a defensive manner.

Proves my point and my dislike of politics.

Thanks

Actually it's not funny at all.

Mine was a piss taking reply with a dig at the media for being dodgy. Nothing defensive at all.

Corbyn ****ed up by forgetting a number, but corrected himself. Nothing like the crazy stuff the press are saying. I would love it if the press treated both the same and then the partied didn't take us as mugs.

 

[fatletiss]

Mine was a piss taking reply. Nothing defensive at all.

Fair enough - I missed that. I read them backwards.

 

[TheSecondStain]

Tbf, has May actually put cost to anything she has said? Corbyn ****ed up but eventually got there. It just seems weird that May doesn't get called out on budget as much as Corbyn, especially by the press.

Are we going to talk about how unfair the press even BBC are with Corbyn and how easy going most are with May?

Jeremy Corbyn treated unfairly by press, says David Dimbleby

Speaking before a Question Time special on Thursday when he will interview the Labour leader and Theresa May, Dimbleby pointed out the rightwing bias of most British newspapers and complained of their “lazy pessimism”.

In an interview with the Radio Times, Dimbleby said: “I don’t think anyone could say that Corbyn has had a fair deal at the hands of the press, in a way that the Labour party did when it was more to the centre, but then we generally have a rightwing press.”


https://www.theguardian.com/media/20...ers?CMP=twt_gu

Even Dimbleby says it.

Yours a person who will be voting Labour, but doesn't like Corbyn and would be voting Lib Dem if they had a chance. Basically a tactical voter because I hate how the Tories treat the sick and disabled and poor.

I've seen the latest percentages in my constituency of Romsey & Southampton North, and it looks like I have to vote Liberal after all. They're in with a half decent chance of unseating Caroline Nokes, so I'd better go that route. Please Labour & Liberal, if you see that you can make a coalition between you this time please don't be put off with a Labour leader saying No the first time. Stick around until he has time to think about it.

 

[Beef]

Fair enough - I missed that. I read them backwards.

I can't get defensive over anything apart from abuse, racism etc. Who random people vote for is no concern of mine, too many people get crazy over politics. Like I said before I am only calling out the Tories because they are running the country now. Austerity is destroying way too many lives for my liking. If Labour/Dems were doing the same I would call them out too. I'm not a one party guy, I support the party I see as trying to help the poor, sick and disabled the most.

 

[Puck]

Absolutely hilarious. Nearly everyone who has replied to my post or the content of it, has replied in a defensive manner.

Proves my point and my dislike of politics.

Thanks

Actually it's not funny at all.

Well I have to say I agree with your basic point. Of course, this thread probably isn't going to help many people make up their minds and most on here didn't need to make their mind up. The majority of posters on this thread knew how they were going to vote as soon as the election was called and the majority of those posters are Labour supporters (or at least left-leaning). There was a reasonable amount of criticism of Theresa May's interview this week and a certain amount of gloating when the other guy (Fallon?) screwed up over the Boris quote but very little said about Corbyn.

When it comes down to it, these interviews - and the debates when they happened - are somewhat interesting if you're into politics but not that important (at least not for me) because I don't think many people watch them or take that much interest when they do. The interviewees are usually more concerned with not screwing up than with saying anything significant.

Being able to interview well also doesn't mean you'd be a good prime minister. I won't be voting for Corbyn but I have no interest in criticising him for today because I think it's ridiculous to expect him to retain every statistic or piece of information in his head. When I'm at work I often have to tell people I'll need to check a figure or the exact wording of a rule or piece of legislation. It's perfectly normal. Similarly, I think it's somewhat silly to criticise Fallon (if it was him) for not recognising that the quote read out to him was something Boris Johnson had written however many years ago. Your response is a perfect demonstration that this is exactly the sort of petty point scoring that puts people off.

 

[TheSecondStain]

I can't get defensive over anything apart from abuse, racism etc. Who random people vote for is no concern of mine. Too many people get crazy over politics, like I said before I am only calling out the Tories because they are running the country now. Austerity is destroying way too many lives for my liking. If Labour/Dems were doing the same I would call them out to. I'm not a one party guy, I support the party I see as trying to help the poor, sick and disabled the most.

Indeed, I am not dogmatically anti-conservative myself. But I don't see them trying to help the poor, sick and disabled anything like as much as is required. However, the neglect of those groups is such that it'll take an awful lot of effort to get things turned round again, Twas ever thus. Hey, if I had my world I'd be voting for the Green Party. Then again, in my world there would be Proportional Representation, so that everyone's vote really counted for something, and the individual could actually feel represented in Parliament. But apparently, PR doesn't lead to strong government. That's the biggest political lie ever suggested. What it really means is that MPs have to find a way, work harder and work together, across the party spectrum.

 

[Paddy Podped]

Indeed, I am not dogmatically anti-conservative myself. But I don't see them trying to help the poor, sick and disabled anything like as much as is required. However, the neglect of those groups is such that it'll take an awful lot of effort to get things turned round again, Twas ever thus. Hey, if I had my world I'd be voting for the Green Party. Then again, in my world there would be Proportional Representation, so that everyone's vote really counted for something, and the individual could actually feel represented in Parliament. But apparently, PR doesn't lead to strong government. That's the biggest political lie ever suggested. What it really means is that MPs have to find a way, work harder and work together, across the party spectrum.

What PR also means is that, in general, the current party in power at any given time would not have as great a majority compared with first-past-the-post. So no party will ever vote for it.

Unfortunately we missed our chance to have any likelihood of a change when the AV vote came and went. Largely (imo) due to a massively disproportionate level of media coverage of it compared ot other referendums (e.g. Scottish, Brexit etc.)

 

[ImpSaint]

Are we scared to put up a poll? or is that not allowed? it would allow all those who are going to vote for a party they can't defend in a debate a chance to have their say?

Lol. It would have Tory in single figures % wise with most who will vote Tory preferring not to be "outed."

 

[TheSecondStain]

What PR also means is that, in general, the current party in power at any given time would not have as great a majority compared with first-past-the-post. So no party will ever vote for it.

Unfortunately we missed our chance to have any likelihood of a change when the AV vote came and went. Largely (imo) due to a massively disproportionate level of media coverage of it compared ot other referendums (e.g. Scottish, Brexit etc.)

It was a reasonable attempt by Liberals to obtain some power [and fairness incidentally] and was part of their coalition agreement. The Tories and the Tory Press laughed it away, which is a shame. AV isn't the best version of PR, but it was a start.

 

[Paddy Podped]

It was a reasonable attempt by Liberals to obtain some power [and fairness incidentally] and was part of their coalition agreement. The Tories and the Tory Press laughed it away, which is a shame. AV isn't the best version of PR, but it was a start.

Agree it's not the best, but better than FPTP I'd say.

A shame the way it was covered nationally, from memory it was generally advertised as 'this really complicated way of doing things.....oh it's so confusing and makes little difference'.

 

[ImpSaint]

I think that, deep down, Jeremy Corbyn is against the EU. There are elements such as human rights and environmental matters where I feel he would be supportive but it is interesting reading far Left websites such as SWP's where you get a different flavour of things where they are suggesting that the EU is pro-Capitalist and therefore we are better off out of it. I don't believe that Corbyn's views would be much different. It is a fascinating argument as I would consider myself to be very much pro-European. It is possible to see where Corbyn and McDonnell may be coming from and this is what makes me think that both are inherently sceptical of what it has to offer.

We are now in a situation whereby we have a Conservative leader who wanted us to remain wishing to be voted in to lead the negotiations to quit the EU whereas Corbyn is trying to win on the basis that he would offer a softer Brexit. I find the whole Brexit scenario fascinating because the fault lines do not fall clearly between the different parties. In my opinion, Corbyn was actually quite cynical insofar that he did not put any effort in campaigning to remain in the EU as it is seen by many factions within the political Left that the EU exists purely to prop up capitalism. The result ultimately worked to his advantage as the Tories were seen to be split and the Liberals too weak to muster a Remain counter-attack. You can sense why the likes of Blair and Mandelson were furious but sticking to backing Brexit serves Corbyn further insofar it ostracises the New Labour faction, All in all, I imagine that the Brexit vote delighted both Corbyn and McDonnell especially as so many traditional Labour voters were also in favour but both have not played their true hand as there is simply no need for them to mention Brexit. Not being a "Remainer" suits their agenda and they can allow the New Labour MP's to be quickly alienated from the Labour voters. The whole Brexit scenario has played superbly in to the hand of the Far Left and I think it was in the Sunday Telegraph last year that there was an article explaining how this suited a Marxist strategy.

Of course, by seeing to remain on the fence when the wheels eventually come off because the negotiations have broken down or due to the anticipated economic consequences, Labour will obviously and rightly blame the Conservatives. Currently, it is a win / win situation for them and it will remain so just as long as they are not doing the Brexit negotiations.

Currently the momentum seems to be with Labour but even if they don't win this time around, the likely consequences of Brexit will mean Labour will eventually be elected as our democratic government. I think this is why they need to act quickly after the election to ensure that any New Labour MPs ae deselected as quickly as possible and the new parliamentary candidates are "on message" with both Corbyn and McDonnell. Labour would be foolish to discard Corbyn after 8th June if they do not win as they will never have such a good opportunity to have a genuinely Socialist government as we have now.

Personally, I feel we should have remained in the EU but tried to change it more radically from within and seen that money was shared out equally amongst all member states. I think that would have helped migration within Europe.

Virtually spot on there with your analysis of Corbyn/McDonnell and their circle. Remember I said a long long time ago that the Unions might be Pro EU at the moment but will turn anti-EU once they are sure the New Labour faction won't be regaining control. Corbyn and McDonnell are most definitely anti-EU no matter what they say now.

And both Corbyn and May "announced" they were for remain but then both took a back seat from the campaigns because they are both Eurosceptics.

 

[ImpSaint]

Angela Merkel meets Indian Prime Minister (before UK does) Brexit just gets better and better!

You must log in or register to see images

Theresa May "met" him in November on a 3 day visit to India!!!

 

[ImpSaint]

Absolutely hilarious. Nearly everyone who has replied to my post or the content of it, has replied in a defensive manner.

Proves my point and my dislike of politics.

Thanks

Actually it's not funny at all.

To be honest I liked his answer. He didn't reel off a made up number like Abbott. He didn't just give a different answer to the question like May does. He said "I would like to give you accurate figures" rather than guesswork which I thought was quite honest.

The only problem is that all these interviews today were setup by Corbyn's team for him to promote this particular policy and that is why there is such a fuss. HE went on to promote a single policy which when asked how much it would cost he couldn't answer. It wasn't just an interview to go over anything. It was specifically setup to promote this new policy.

If you are selling something, best to know all the facts about the product. Maybe next time I "win" a free Kirby cleaned room the chap will forget how much the price is and I can offer him a tenner for it.

 

[TheSecondStain]

Agree it's not the best, but better than FPTP I'd say.

A shame the way it was covered nationally, from memory it was generally advertised as 'this really complicated way of doing things.....oh it's so confusing and makes little difference'.

Oh, way, way better than FPTP. Off the top of my head I can't think of a worse democratic electoral voting system than FPTP. I suppose 'rotten boroughs' were worse, but they went out century or two ago and they just made FPTP even more lopsided.
The old argument against purer forms of PR is that they don't produce clear strong covernment.. That's not true. What they tend to produce is coalitions**. But coalitions from all parties, so MPs have to work together. It tends to produce a much fairer and representative form of government.

**Note, not the two party coalition that we had a couple or so years ago.

 

[Saints_Alive]

We could be heading back to 2010....

You must log in or register to see images

 

[ImpSaint]

We could be heading back to 2010....

You must log in or register to see images

This being a poll from YouGov and seeing Peter Kellner lost for words and confused in 2015 and twice in 2016 I am looking at it with a pinch of salt.

This being the YouGov who's polls had a hung parliament by a margin) in 2015 plus us to stay in the EU and Clinton to win the election easily.

I also find it hard to believe their chap saying they tried this methodology before the EU referendum yet on the night Peter Kellner made no mention of this "other polling."

And if it is accurate then The Tories will either be a minority government or it will be another election. Labour and the others can't get enough to form a coalition on those numbers.

My Money is on the Tories hitting about 340. Hardly any increase and May walking the tightrope of doom within the party.

 

[Beef]

This being a poll from YouGov and seeing Peter Kellner lost for words and confused in 2015 and twice in 2016 I am looking at it with a pinch of salt.

This being the YouGov who's polls had a hung parliament by a margin) in 2015 plus us to stay in the EU and Clinton to win the election easily.

I also find it hard to believe their chap saying they tried this methodology before the EU referendum yet on the night Peter Kellner made no mention of this "other polling."

And if it is accurate then The Tories will either be a minority government or it will be another election. Labour and the others can't get enough to form a coalition on those numbers.

My Money is on the Tories hitting about 340. Hardly any increase and May walking the tightrope of doom within the party.

If the Tories get majority can we get Cameron back to negotiate with the EU?

 

[Archers Road]

I just hope that whoever gets elected tackles the shameful homelessness issue. The numbers have doubled since 2010 and it is heartbreaking to see them on the streets in all weathers.
I walked past a guy who looked in his 30s the other day who was in a sleeping bag at the bottom of the stairwell of a multi-storey car park, he asked me if I had a bottle of water and I said that I hadn't, I carried on walking and just a few yards on there was a dead rat on the pavement. How is it, in the 21st Century that we can have people living like this?. I read that a large percentage of the homeless have a mental illness, so it is unfair to say they they did it to themselves.
How about a bit of compassion from our Government for a change...

Absolutely no coincidence there. You get a Tory government, you get an increase in homelessness. Not under Harold Macmillan and Ted Heath because they were both committed to the postwar social consensus that considered a decent place to live and a job that paid enough to live on to be fundamental human rights.

But after Margaret Thatcher tore up that consensus homelessness, and child poverty increased throughout her governments, were tackled effectively under Labour between 1997 - 2010, and are both on the rise again now. This is no accident.

I step over homeless people every day on my way in to work at Finsbury Park. That didn't happen 8 years ago. This is no accident; this is a direct result of cuts in social care funding.

 

[Archers Road]

I don't like talk of poverty because the word "poverty" conjures up Dickensian images of orphans and starving families in workhouses, and that isn't what the statistic measures.

The fact that poverty is largely hidden nowadays in comparison to say, the 1930s, does not mean it doesn't exist.

Over a million 3 day emergency supplies were given out by food banks in 2016/17. That sounds like poverty to me - what term would you prefer to talk of for people who, in the world's 5th largest economy, can't afford to feed themselves or their families?

 

[Archers Road]

Lol. It would have Tory in single figures % wise with most who will vote Tory preferring not to be "outed."

Why is that, do you think?