Politics Thread - Europe Out or In..

It is dangerous and irresponsible to give us all an in/out vote without presenting the facts so we can make an informed decision.

I would LOVE to vote 'out', but I have no idea what the pros and cons are.

 

I'm the same.. Cameron has so say completed a 'great deal' for us in Europe but blatantly hasn't explained what that deal entails.

I want control of our borders back and I want complete sovereignty of our laws and removal of ridiculous human rights laws that allow terrorists to stay in this country whether we like it or not.

I'm happy enough to have an open trade market and the status of being European but the loss of control is a no-no

 

Looking on from the far outside it concerns me as to how we appear to have lost our identity and direction. Obviously I don't have the daily information available to me to make a completely valid opinion but many things give me concerns in regard to the U.K. membership in the European Union.

It seems to me that we have to defer on so many contentious issues to the rights dictated in the scope of membership, and that would include MEP's part in the overall equation combined with an apparent duplication of many political jurisdictions and it begs me to ask who takes priority? On my frequent visits to England I see an over abundance of new and recent arrivals who don't seem to contribute to society and yet are more than willing to accept any handouts available through the government programmes. It amazes me the lengths the country had to go through to deport some not very nice people and the cost of doing what so many of us thought was right must have cost a small fortune in legal fees. Having full control over your borders and the ability to refuse entry to anyone who is not willing to fully participate in the culture is essential unless you want total chaos and that appears to me to be the current situation.

Human Rights is a big issue today but when someone else is making those decisions for you it doesn't help to resolve the issues at hand if you want to alter your parameters for residency without the approval of the almighty European Court. It's my understanding that you are unable to change any law that was in effect on the day of signing the agreement due to grandfathering clause, so if you want to change the rules for national purposes after the joining date you have to get approval from Brussels. The U.K. has spent so much effort on trying to get a new deal but I reckon stupidity and lack of attention to detail hasn't helped the problem.

The vote is critical for the future but, as yet, I haven't had the time to understand exactly what is new on the table that would make you want to stay in a union that holds many pitfalls and loopholes that drain the national economy. I was never a supporter in the first place because I saw what was coming down the pipe and was not fooled by the promises and when we had to fork out money for the failures of other economies it made me disappointed in the entire system. As I said at the start my total understanding of the full situation is very limited but the daily visit to the BBC News site is generally filled with horror stories of how my birth country has changed for the worse and that the English are the true losers in the human rights department and not the newcomers arriving on your shores.

The problem is that if you do decide to exit the European Union it will be very difficult to calculate the cost of before and after, but I would be interested to hear all your opinions as you will be the voters. Is there enough change being offered to warrant staying put, or are all the other factors involved too much to overcome which means leaning towards an exit?

 

This is such a important decision for the great British people.
This is so important for future generations,yes my kids,your kids and their kids.
Our great country has been taken away from us,we vote our government in,yet they are dictated by Brussels.
Our country has been ripped apart by being in Europe.
We have towns and citys across the country that have been taken over by migrants that are causing problems.
Our NHS has been crippled by the influx of foreign people that are milking our services,putting British people who have paid their dues over many years at risk.This said by leading surgeons in the NHS.
The billions of money that is sent overseas that the British people pay to our government in tax,not benefiting our people.
Not to mention the jobs being taken by the foreign invasion,the crime being committed by overseas migrants.

100% voting out,any sane British person must make their vote count for the sake of future generations.
We survived before the EU and we will survive out of it.
The EU has been one big cash cow with us paying more out than what we recieve.

 

Recent events have illustrated what a dangerous world we live in. Common sense dictates that a European government is a must and then a world government before we blow ourselves to pieces. Despite all the rhetoric and the many examples quoted, immigration is not a real social or economic problem in this country. There are too many people who actually believe what the media stirs up. I'm in.

 

If you don't think theres a problem you're quite simply deluded.. the perception of a problem is a problem.. 76% of the British population feel immigration has got out of hand and that includes from all racial backgrounds..

http://www.migrationwatchuk.org/what-is-the-problem

Also clearly states there is no economic benefit from large scale immigration..

 

I hope that we will, very quickly, be given a balance sheet which shows how much money we contribute and how much we get back in the form of subsidies etc.

 

it wont be all in or all out it will close ............. methinks

having heard most of the pro's and con's it is what I believe .. we are being subjected to a load of jobsworth's on exhorbitant rates of expenses and some wages to dictate to us whether we should eat a 3" 4" or 6" banana and whether it should be straight or crescent shaped ... how many millions of euro's did that cost? and that is just one of the hundreds of super stupid rules they have imposed ...

I don't think the common market as it is, is right for us ... ... ... Europe have screwed it up BIG TIME... the majority offer a lot less than we do and expect us to foot the bill.
The closing factor was tonight on TV interviewed an immigrant who sends all his child benefit back to his home land and was extremely upset that might stop .. I am one of the unlucky ones . .. when child benefit changed I had stopped getting it, when all the other benefits like income and family etc came inI didn't qualify etc etc and now for just BEING 2 weeks out, my wife has to wait another 7 years to draw a pension WHY .. . because the number of people going to retire in future years have been swelled by people who come here for 3 .. 5 .. 10 or a few more years and get looked after for the rest of their lives ..likely sending most of it " home" somewhere ....


VOTE OUT

 

Wiz - my comments were not directed at your thread - they were meant for the referendum itself. Sorry if it read that way.

 

Having spent the last 8 winters hiding in the Canary Islands and talking to our many friends who live in the U.K. it was clearly evident that the vast majority believed that many rights had been taken away and they were not prepared to continue as things are now. Immigration and the human rights issues associated with that area were a main concern but more importantly they were fed up with most, if not all, decisions were being made by other parties and can't believe that family allowance payments could be made to a worker's family overseas. Whether things can ever return to normal is very questionable but surely human rights need to be returned to the Brits along with assurances that decisions about most key factors will be in their, and not some foreign court's, best interests.

It's all smoke and mirrors anyway so the politicians will only tell you what they think you want to know, or what they are willing to tell you, in order for your vote to be cast in whatever way they want. Good luck and rule Britannia, so you tell them.

 

Successive governments have been at the mercy of Brussels while the population at large fund pan European matters that are nothing to do with the UK.
Our contribution to these funds have been mind boggling and the benefits seen, virtually zero.

Close our borders. Expel the preachers or hate and no to any further immigration.

Country's full.

 

Had this discussion with my wife yesterday. And to be honest it will also depend on what industry you are in as some rely on EU free movement and some won't be affected.
RR using your trade as an example.
A majority of car parts are built in Europe would then have an impact on car sales if parts go up.
But on the other hand maybe that will force British companies to make their own but then some things need to be imported so the list goes on.

 

I've given this quite a lot of thought and at the moment am on the side of staying in the EU. I guess I could be swayed if I heard a persuasive economic argument (but think that's unlikely)

With regard to UKIP - after the referendum what happens to them?
If we vote to stay in then that's it for another generation
If we vote to go then their sole reason for existing is now done

 

As I say it all depends on what you believe in the press http://iasservices.org.uk/how-does-immigration-benefit-the-uk/. All I know is that in my lifetime there a few places where I have worked and lived where have been scared to go outside for a walk or a drink. Of course there are places in inner cities which are unsafe but that is the same in every country but certainly nowhere near as bad here as in many other countries. Racism exists in all of us to a larger or lesser degree. Having had several scrapes with my maker I know that the NHS would for example cease to be without immigrant workers. I personally rejoice that we by and large have a well integrated multi cultural society. Still that is off topic, in essence I believe that there is strength in numbers within a united Europe and I also believe that if people still think that we as a nation are a world power able to dictate to the rest of the world either in economic terms or military terms then it is them who are deluded. People forget that for years our prosperity depended on "your in our club" trade within the Commonwealth. If we leave the EU eventually that market would find preferred suppliers for our goods. At the end of the day this decision has to be made on economic grounds. That drives our standard of living.

 

Just look at the map though. Look how small we are. Very soon many of the Asian countries will be overtaking us. We don't manufacture anything now how long before our services industries are bettered. Life is about opinions . I believe we are small island in a big world. The yanks stick with us. Eventually the Asians will stick with the Asians.

 

'we are small island in a big world' - with the 5th largest economy.

'At the end of the day this decision has to be made on economic grounds' -
Not for me, because who the hell do you believe.
Many from business advocate staying in and wonder if cheap labour has anything to do with that.
All of this lot also told us we HAD to join the Euro so not a great track record.

Then you have other business folk saying Europe is shrinking and we'd be better off not being held back by Euro red tape.
Not to mention where the real growth is now in the world.
So you 'pays your money and make your choice !'

Cameron, what a weak tw*t, goes on about how safe and secure we are in Europe and our influence in the world.
FFS, get real the Yanks, Russians and Chinese hold all the cards.
The recent bombing in Syria by Russia is scandalous, they couldn't care what Europe says.
So where's the influence ???
In or out the major powers do what they want, but if push comes to shove the only ally we could half trust is the USA.
They'd always be at our back and us them.

For me it's also about Tony Blair signing up to uncontrolled immigration, currently running at net 300k plus annually.
Schools, Roads, NHS etc etc will come under ever increasing pressure.
Germany and Sweden have taken something like 1.4 million migrants in the last year.
Somebody please tell me this extra lot won't eligible in 3 years to come here.
As an aside Germany can accept another 60 million migrants before they reach our population density.
We must make our own decisions, I can't stand it that 27 others hold sway.

The press is either Blue or Red depending which paper you read.
The BBC has received £9million pound from the EU, so unwise to believe that lot either.
Make your own mind up guys but guess you know how I feel.

 

Germany is already reaping the 'benefits' of the migrants they've allowed in and the previous lack of borders around all EU states following the attacks on Women there on New Years Eve.

And this is just the tip of the iceberg.

The French have all of the thousands of migrants in 'The Jungle' at Calais and are rightfully fearful as to what these people will do in the years to come.