Players vs Manager

[Spurm]

True, but i'm still in the other camp.
The midfield was getting a torrid time, but clear-cut-chance-wise we were giving about as good as we got, so i don't see the sense in changing it early rather than seeing how it pans out and changing it later.

 

[PowerSpurs]

I really can't let this go without making some response. For me to be making comments about AVB some 48 hours after the game is not talking "with hindsight". I said it during the first half from my seat in the stand. As usual, it is non acceptable to even dare to question the guy as even more excuses are created for him. I don't like him, I don't particuarly rate him and I still feel he is out of his depth with us.

Frankly, I think he got out of jail on Sunday as he didn't have a clue what to do. That we went in only a goal down was due to luck rather than his tactical know-how. It is not 'churlish' to criticise the manager, it is called having an opinion. After we won at OT I said much the same because I thought that day his tactics were barking mad and even with "hindsight" and knowing we won, I still think they were. Of course City have a superior squad and of course it was a great day and a great result. But there are some of us who like to look beyond the result and pick the bones out of what may or may not have been improved upon. If that means being critical of our manager, then it's about time some on here learned to accept that, because for many months there has been a tendency to pounce on anyone who says anything anti-AVB, as seems to be the case here.

I seem to have unintentionally started something.......I didn't mean to imply that AVB was above criticism or even that he rarely makes mistakes. Actually I have long experience in management, and I think my results show I am pretty good at it, but I'd be surprised if, objectively, I get more than 60% of close decisions right. I also really value the discussion on here and particularly opinions that disagree with mine because understanding why really helps me learn. But I do have a sensitive spot to posts that imply that simply because one set of tactics worked at one point in the game then it must have been incorrect not to have adopted them from the start. One thing I found quite amusing during the match was that Gary Neville made a comment about Sig cutting inside too early and a couple of seconds later they cut to AVB who was yelling exactly the same thing.

I think our squad this year is worse than last year and has been ravaged by injuries as well. Nevertheless we are pretty close to being in the same spot in the table and I think this suggests that AVB is certainly doing a good job.

What is for sure is that every Spurs manager in the last 50 years knows more about football than I do, as does every other manager in the League. therefore I always try to learn from how they approach the games rather than jumping in with criticism.

 

[Spurm]

because for many months there has been a tendency to pounce on anyone who says anything anti-AVB, as seems to be the case here.

I've not seen anything like that on these boards tbh. In fact, your posts are the closest i've seen to such behaviour but with the opposite opinion.

Its been about 50/50 on this thread for whether AVB did well or badly against City, i don't see anyone jumping on anyone. As you are allowed to voice your anti-AVB stance i don't see why others can't voice their pro-AVB stance without being accused of jumping on other people's opinions.

 

[Wandering Yid]

ALL HAIL AVB

You must log in or register to see images

 

[O.Spurcat]

I've not seen anything like that on these boards tbh. In fact, your posts are the closest i've seen to such behaviour but with the opposite opinion.

Its been about 50/50 on this thread for whether AVB did well or badly against City, i don't see anyone jumping on anyone. As you are allowed to voice your anti-AVB stance i don't see why others can't voice their pro-AVB stance without being accused of jumping on other people's opinions.

Sorry Spurm but I beg to differ with you on this one. Spurf frequently appears when AVB criticisms have been made. I know, he's picked me up on them on several occasions.

 

[Spurm]

Sorry Spurm but I beg to differ with you on this one. Spurf frequently appears when AVB criticisms have been made. I know, he's picked me up on them on several occasions.

No need to be sorry, but i've not. Maybe its because i'm the pro-AVB brigade so i've glossed over it? I dunno.
But i think this thread has been fairly even in the YayAVB vs NayAVB.

I will readily admit that performance wise we are far from the "glories" of last year, but similarly we getting points in matches where, i think, we would have got none last season. We've also yet to go on slump in comparison to last years.
I really don't think our squad is SO good that it could beat Utd, City, Liverpool and Arsenal in the same season if AVB is completely clueless, and still with a match vs Chelsea to come.
We've also faired better in Europe this season, which deserves a bit of credit, yet we're still there or thereabouts

 

[Spurf]

I really can't let this go without making some response. For me to be making comments about AVB some 48 hours after the game is not talking "with hindsight". I said it during the first half from my seat in the stand. As usual, it is non acceptable to even dare to question the guy as even more excuses are created for him. I don't like him, I don't particuarly rate him and I still feel he is out of his depth with us.

Frankly, I think he got out of jail on Sunday as he didn't have a clue what to do. That we went in only a goal down was due to luck rather than his tactical know-how. It is not 'churlish' to criticise the manager, it is called having an opinion. After we won at OT I said much the same because I thought that day his tactics were barking mad and even with "hindsight" and knowing we won, I still think they were. Of course City have a superior squad and of course it was a great day and a great result. But there are some of us who like to look beyond the result and pick the bones out of what may or may not have been improved upon. If that means being critical of our manager, then it's about time some on here learned to accept that, because for many months there has been a tendency to pounce on anyone who says anything anti-AVB, as seems to be the case here.

The opposite in fact OS it was PowerSpurs who was 'pounced' on for supporting AVB. I also reject your assertion that anyone who criticises AVB is pounced on, and I am not talking from a support AVB context, I for one am still making up my mind as many of us are. It's all in the name of debate and we get many 'Spurs' fans views on here I'm glad to say. This game is producing an interesting debate because of those differing views and it's being conducted in a civilised manner, so long may it continue.

 

[Spurf]

Sorry Spurm but I beg to differ with you on this one. Spurf frequently appears when AVB criticisms have been made. I know, he's picked me up on them on several occasions.

Really? Maybe because I agree with most of what you post it is more noticble when I disagree. Our major area of diagreement is on Harry where you are particulaly sensitive and still seem to be smarting over his dismissal. If you look though my posts you will find that I am not as you imply an AVB supporter, I merely comment as I observe. There is no agenda.

 

[notsosmartspur]

One thing I found quite amusing during the match was that Gary Neville made a comment about Sig cutting inside too early and a couple of seconds later they cut to AVB who was yelling exactly the same thing.

So all you saw was AVB yelling something at Sig...see post #11.

 

[Spurf]

I think you've under-rated yourself to an extent Spurf, I know you know a little more about the game today than you're letting on here.

I also agree with the changes and the subsequent result, who wouldn't! and aswell as this one went, lets not forget the poor ones in other games which made no difference either.

My point here is a starting lineup takes more thought and you have more time to do it, changes during a game are reaction to a situation and decisions have to be made in minutes not hours/days. Its his pre-game planning with no pressure thats still questionable and i think a fair point to make and discuss, its not a witch-hunt.

On the City game first half, of course no-one knows what the outcome would be in a different formation. Some have suggested that had we kept Demps and Sig wide, we'd be over-run in MF??, do we really think the City players have would stayed in the middle and let them have free run out there...of course not, they'd have dragged their markers out with them leaving more space in the middle...where Bale was. You don't need to be a tactical genius to see that, fairly simple stuff no? and imo, all viewable from the dugout and correctable from the tech area, we could have been dead and buried by HT. Suggestions that this was intentional to hopefully nick a draw at the end is just plain daft.

My comments concerning my knowledge are quite genuine, I learn far more on here than I give out. Your right it's not a witch hunt and pretty much everone is contributing their views without malice. This Spurs board is top notch in my view with widely differing views from Spurs fans responded too in an intelligent way with very little abuse. Just have a look at some of the other boards and see the difference, it's not surprising that we have posters like District Line contributing more and more interesting posts it's a good place for sensible football debate.

 

[Dier Hard]

To be fair the Pro-AVB brigade is on Twitter, it's actually cringe worthy the amount of people that refuse to hear a bad word about him. They post non-stop photos of him declaring their love, put hash tags such as #AVBelieve and #inAVBiTrust, laugh at Harry at QPR as if the man done **** all for us and the moment you mention something negative about AVB you're a "**** fan".

Personally I'd say I'm neither pro or anti AVB, I won't deny I held a strong sense of loyalty to Harry, I felt he was (and still is) the best manager we've had in yonks which was I was so pissed off at his sacking and the replacing of him with an inexperienced AVB who'd just come off the back of an embarrassing sacking at Chelsea. I'm still not fully convinced he's the man to truly take us forward/ onto the next step and whether he was worth getting rid of Harry for but my expectations of him have risen greatly and I hope he can impress me further.

 

[notsosmartspur]

Spurf - I think the point here is, and I'll use myself as the example, I was first I think to say I thought he'd made a balls of selection, and a lack of direction from the sidelines in the first half. I was quite quickly jumped on and alluded to in one sentence as a foretelling 'know-all', and other comments with a general gist of, "why pick on the negatives, you should pat him on the back for the changes and the result" (it doesn't matter by who)...thing is, I'd already done that! and spent two days grinning about it! I only wanted to discuss the former as a point for debate, and what appeared to be blasphemy at the time, you're 'now' saying is fair and reasonable.

 

[Spurf]

Spurf - I think the point here is, and I'll use myself as the example, I was first I think to say I thought he'd made a balls of selection, and a lack of direction from the sidelines in the first half. I was quite quickly jumped on and alluded to in one sentence as a foretelling 'know-all', and other comments with a general gist of, "why pick on the negatives, you should pat him on the back for the changes and the result" (it doesn't matter by who)...thing is, I'd already done that! and spent two days grinning about it! I only wanted to discuss the former as a point for debate, and what appeared to be blasphemy at the time, you're 'now' saying is fair and reasonable.

I understand that notso, my first comment on the thread was to give some support to PowerSpurs who had just been told his post was rubbish and asked by you why he was on the forum. (Yes I know toungue in cheek). Two heavy weight posters who are more than capable of looking after themselves. I was attempting to redress the balance because I thought PS had made two interesting points and it looked at that time as if he was on his own. That's all really, since then further support has arrived for both sides of the discusion. Sometimes people may confuse my position because I am a moderator. In this case I have combined my role as a poster with a thought to keeping the peace as a mod later in the thread. Blasphemy is ok by me btw but we are not discussing SAF just the merely mortal AVB. Actually the more we comment on this the more it looks like a situation which it is clearly not. I think notso that you and I have no issue here and nor for that matter does anybody else as far as I can tell.

Can we move on? anybody can always PM if needed.

 

[Spurm]

anyone that disses AVB can meet me outside, ok?

Joke btw, just in case, don't wanna get beaten up