firstly, I want this to be known. I would love him to still be here next season. The thing is, If I were in his position and thinking purely with my head and not my yellow and green heart, I think I'd probably move on. It pains me to say it, but unless a mystery benifactor suddenly appears then I think it would be a bigger risk to PL's reputation to stay than it would be to go. Look at it from PL's perspective, where can he realistically take Norwich this season? 8th or 9th at best (with the current financial situation). Maybe a cup win, but that is a long shot. Chances are, a repeat of this season is the best that can be hoped for and is FAR from guaranteed! Paul Lambert's stock is at a peak. How can he improve his reputation further with us? Should he be take the Villa job and guide them to 8th or 9th then he would have proved that he can cope with the pressures of a 'big club' and further offers will come in. I know funds might be tight at Villa, but they are at Norwich and look how he has done for us! I just think that to get one of the REALLY big jobs, Villa might be a perfect stepping stone. In his position (loyalties aside)I'm sorry, but the truth is I would be very tempted. Hey ho, if it were to happen, I would wave him on his way and wish him the best of luck. What he has done for our club should never be understated. A born winner and a true gent. If he were to go I would love to see Malky in the dugout next season, but that is probably just sentiment. I am sure that McNally would appoint the right successor. As good as Lambert is, he is not a god. What he has achieved can be built upon. Still hope he stays though
Newcastle finished 12th last year and I think our team is better than theirs was last year. I know that they had been in the prem recently before and they're a bigger club AND we won't be able to buy the likes of Cisse or Cabaye, but I see no reason why we can't get in the top eight in the next two/three years. The thing is, Lambert is just getting better at understanding the league. And he knows this team he has created has clicked recently. It seems like an awful lot of tlc has gone into moulding this squad, it would be frustrating from my pov to leave and watch someone else quite possibly riding on my success, whereas I've got to pick players up off the floor at Villa. I know that probably sounds a bit like me kidding myself, but the only appeal I can think of is that Villa have bigger funds available and some decent youngsters coming through, but that's not going to change in the next few years, whereas going there now could easily damage his rep. He's not going to damage his rep here because it's all too familiar. When our team begins to look a bit stale (a la Wigan), that's when it will be the right time for him to jump ship and start again. Just take a look at Ferguson- he works in four/five year cycles with regular turn-over in between
Good point but he has built this squad. this is lamberts team. the holt and hoolahan are about the only two we will probably keep that he inherated! At villa the whole squad is ****, as going by the media they have less money than us plus birminstan is not a great plase to live... i cant see villa being a better job than city. If Liverpool got rid of daglish then differnt matter. I still feel he has a lot to prove and norwich is the place to do it!
I know that anythingis possible, but I think you are talking with your heart there. Lambert is not a Norwich fan, he is simply employed by the club to win football matches. That is hi only relationship with Norwich. He has built himself a reputation and the only things missing from that now are to prove he can take the pressure at a media recognised club and then on to winning silverware. Newcastle are the exception to the rule. They are one of the biggest clubs in the country but they are unstable. One year they wil finnish 5th, the next they will be fightin relegation. Totally unpredictable. It is very unlikely that Norwich will emulate them next season and as an impartial employee Lambert needs to asses the odds. Even after this season, he is likely to achieve a higher league position with Villa next year than he can with us. As for Fergie, he is at the pinacle of his career. As long as he is successful why would he move on?
Villa are not a big club any more. they one bugger all since probably the 70s and dont get that much bigger crouds than us.
I have to agree... 40,000 seater stadium; higher wage cap; good history; fans clearly on his side; (like Norwich in 2009) massively underachieving. Its a logical step BUT Randy Lerner is a bona fide tit. It all depends on just HOW bad Martin O#Neill's account is.
hi kenny, good explanation of how you see things. i'll explain why i think you're wrong for the sake of balance! if we take your first point about a mystery benefactor, i really don't understand this. how many clubs in the premier league have a big benefactor who splashes big cash? its the top six or 7 and thats it. how many clubs are tightening their belts? almost everone except the top clubs - and even one or two of them are drifting. what are we up to? well actually, we aren't tightening our belts because ours we're already pretty tight. if anything, our club appears more ambitious than many others because we are increasing our available funds year on year and progressing as a club. if lambert went to villa it would require more downsizing - this has already been stated as the case so unless villa suddenly get a benefactor willing to pump big funds in, they are in the same position as us. secondly, nobody knows if lambert's stock is at its peak. how can he improve us? well, if his january deals are anything to go by, he has the chance to push us further up the table and towards the european positions. now of course, this is very ambitious and could go the other way, but he runs that risk at villa too. at least with norwich he has all the players on side and committed to him as a manager and a man. had villa finished comfortably mid table and not announced their cost-cutting measures then i would agree it is a forward step but as it stands, the only thing they have over norwich is a 30-year old european cup and 6k extra on the gate. is that really going to make a big difference? personally, i think they will come in for him - to be honest, if they don't they are mad! however, i trust the manager we have. the next thing going massively in our favour is that lambert's hero is martin o'neill. lets not kid ourselves, o'neill and villa fell out on a grand scale and ended up going through the courts. there is apparently a nasty back-story to all this which will come out one day but lets just say o'neill rates randy lerner rather lower than low. if lambert doesn't listen to his ex-gaffer then i don't know who he'll listen to. finally, we have what lambert says. now sometimes this gets wildly misconstrued, as it was the other night. he wasn't sticking two fingers up saying 'i'm off - stuff you', he was merely covering all bases. he doesn't know which jobs will become available. imagine if he'd said he'd definitely be here next season and then liverpool approached him! he'd have to take the job but he'd come across in an extremely bad way. contrary to what colchester fans and others believe, he is actually pretty loyal - loyal to people he trusts and believes in. he has extremely good relations with everyone at norwich city from top to bottom - it takes a brave man to walk away from that but there will be offers that are too good to turn down. villa is not one of those as it stands today. it would be a huge gamble. as you say, if it were to happen then we'll just move on and find the next lambert but i really, really don't think he'll go to villa. its not just gut instinct either, its logic. if liverpool came in for him he'd go and quite rightly. i'm sure we'll find out soon enough
You are quite correct, but as far as Lambert is concerned, it is the fact that the media still percieve them as a big club that can help enhance his reputation. As a successful Norwich manager he is not going to get the big job offers. As a successful Villa manager he just might. That is a fact of life.
Kenny, I hate to say it, but I kind of agree with you. For all the issues there are at Villa, Lambert would have got more out of them this season. Looking to next season, we will probably still have to have a very serious eye on the bottom end of the table, but if Villa had Lambo I think they'd be pretty certain of mid-table in year one. That said, the ownership, and experience of MoN at Villa is a very big issue. Whoever ends up at Villa will have a massive job on their hands, but if they can get it right, the possibilities are big. That is of course a very big 'if', but could that 'if' be just the thing to tempt an ambitious manager? In the end I suspect the Lerner and MoN issues will be key and he'll stay put, but if I were him, I'd still be tempted.
should just state that i agree with much of what you said initially kenny, i just counter balanced it
Brilliant post, I agree. I think Aston Villa is a lot more attractive post than we all think, purely because it's Paul Lambert who loves a challenge. I also hope we keep him mind.
I disagree with this almost word for word. 1) Our natural position is not top eight. Villa's is. 2) Picking players up off the floor is his forte. He did it at Norwich and he works best with players with something to prove. 3) The "decent youngsters" are likely to be young/ hungry/ innate quality. Again this is his forte, and there are likely to be some gems ready for the first team with the right guiance (like Mclean at Sunderland). 4) He is not at Fergie's stage in his career. Norwich was always a stepping stone to him and I'm glad he has moved us so far on. The job is ideal for him, except for Martin O Neill's experiences (which I think will be enough to put him off)
Villa is the only one that really concerns me at the moment. If Newcastle were to become vacant then I'd be very worried too (though that's clearly not going to happen), but the Liverpool one doesn't really seem right to me. I can't see the board there appointing a relatively inexperienced manager (even if I think he'd do an excellent job there).
I do see what you mean- and I definitely agree he is not a Norwich fan by any stretch of the imagination. However, if there's one bit of emotion Lambert's ever shown it has been how intensely protective he is of his players. And I think this is the sticking point. Yes, he is capable of having the cold-hearted detachment of a businessman and lets players go when they are clearly no longer right for the club, but a number of players have mentioned since they've left how much effort Lambert put into finding the right club for them and how he still looks out for them. I think Lambert is the rare sort of unselfish footballer who genuinely values forging good relationships- that's why he is still so evidently close with MON. I think this is the biggest reason he'll stay here for a little while yet- he has developed a group of players exactly how he wants them, and can work on this now. It is no surprise that (as has been mentioned above) the two players who he inherited who are still here are the only ones you can really say have the same attitude- think how close knit the entire team often comes across... I think, personally, and I am no psychologist, that Lambert will find that the hardest part to leave, and it's only when that part of the squad stagnates that he will consider leaving of his own accord. I could, of course, be completely wrong on that, I accept, but not all footballers are emotionless money grabbing whores. My Newcastle comparison, I realise doesn't really work. However, all I'm saying is that it IS possible. I maintain our squad as a whole (obviously Colocini and Tiote are a lot better) is stronger than Newcastle's last year. With the right pieces of luck in the transfer market, I think we could get top eight. If not next year, maybe in the next two or three years. As for Ferguson, all my point was is that it tends to take a squad that has been built properly by the manager about five years to stagnate before he has to rebuild, I was not comparing the two! Great thread btw. Gives us something to think about despite the topic having been a bit overdone recently
Do you not think he had built the same team spirit and togetherness at Colchester before coming here? I suspect he had.......
I think you've completely misunderstood Lambert's forte then. Yes, he's a decent motivator (in a quietly confident way rather than a Warnock abrasive shouty way), but that's not how he has got Norwich through 54 leagues spaces. Shouting at people only gets you so far. He's a thinker and a tactician. He likes experimenting. The current Villa side is lacking in flexibility in a way that he has ensured Norwich's is not. More importantly, he gets the very best out of players and instils belief in their own abilities. I don't think the Villa sides problem is that they lack belief in their own abilities (christ I think that's the opposite of Agbonlahor/Bent's problems!) I think what they need is a manager who they want to play for. Now I don't doubt for a second that Lambert could do that, but it's wasting an awful lot of his talent if he does. And when I said we could get top eight, I don't mean as our natural position, I meant we could get it after a great season. I don't think fifth is Newcastle's natural position- it's about 7th or 8th. If you look at our attendances/potential, I think we should be in and around 10th. Getting 8th every now and again is therefore very much achievable. As I mentioned above, I didn't mean to make the Fergie comparison like that- I was simply trying to show how football teams often seem to work- c. five-year cycles
The only way I can see him going to Liverpool is if Dalglish is moved upstairs and he tells the owners Lambert is their man to lead the team. Honestly, I could easily see that happening. As for Villa, its a natural reaction to be nervous as you just never know. However, I don't think he'll go there, and that's purely down to what O'Neill would say to him. I honestly don't think Villa would even get to talk to him.
the way i look at it and have looked at it from the very beginning is this: aston villa. right club, wrong circumstances.
No. He was at Colchester a year. He saw an opportunity to make a leap that would have taken him a while with an easy club just looking for someone to inspire them (not that I don't think Villa need that, it's just Norwich fans were much more likely to be forgiving back then...) That's why he jumped ship. He hadn't created his own team at all.
