As i understood it, the change to our 4-3-3 was to accomodate the fact that King often goes missing in games and wasn't strong enough for a 4-4-2 formation, yet was un-droppable. However, now it appears that he is droppable and yet we are still sticking with a formation that leaves us limited up-front but without the goal scoring potential. As we saw today, we are often left with more of a 4-5-1 than 4-3-3 and thus are impotent going forward, which begs the question: Do we stick to the original formation but with the understanding that it must include KIng, or work out something new to the strength of our squad, perhaps a 4-4-2 with Wellens and Fernandez?
Firstly, welcome to the forum Personally I think the 4-3-3 is fine. Our problem last season was the opposite of what our problem is now - we were way to easy to play through the middle of and it led to us conceding a lot of goals. Now, with the signing of Fernandes, we have addressed this issue and we now have an insurance policy. I thought Reading had little joy when they tried to play through us - other than the goals (where we just fell alseep) they only looked dangerous on the break and even then they didn't really create a clearcut chance and we got bodies back quickly. The problem now is instead of playing no defensive midfielders, we now almost have 2, as Abe is in as well. This is to the detrement of our attacking play. We do not have the players for a 4-4-2, it's one thing to play attackers/midfielders out wide in a 4-3-3 but a team with no decent wingers (such as us) can absolutely not play 4-4-2. For example whilst Gallagher can do a good job out wide in a 4-3-3, he'd be very ineffectual in a 4-4-2 - he's not quick enough and wouldn't be able to cut inside as much, which is where he hurts the opposition most. We have a lot of central midfielders but no wingers. So in short I don't think we have the players to play a 4-4-2, my preferred team would be a midfield 3 of Fernandes, Wellens and King/Johnson/Danns. However, I think until we bring in a winger and a striker we will still not be good enough. So until then we need to focus on what strengths we do have in the squad at the moment. I propose an attacking 4-5-1 on Wednesday - the 5 being Fernandes, Wellens, Danns and Gallagher (both out wide) with King playing behind Nugent. This makes use of our good central midfield players whilst not being too defensive. I expect us to pile 3-4 of those 5 midfield players forward when attacking. Not like today, where whether we were on the break or not, we had about 3 players in their half, such was our negative lineup.
Sven generally got it wrong today. Abe, Fernandes and to an extent Wellens are all holding midfielders and they were falling over each other. We basically had 7 defenders on the pitch in the first half. I hope that the owners aren't insisting on Abe playing, cause hes terrible on the ball. Far too defensive minded Sven.
The possibility of that worries me. If you had to sum up what's wrong it would be your second and third sentences - that is the main noticeable thing from the first 2 games as well as the lack of options up front.
formations are one thing.....desire is another.....abe...must be dropped...he was pants today.........just ain't for this league im afraid...to be honest, ive always thought this..........the PR he brings cannot outweigh the teams needs....i felt sorry for him today.........out of his depth.... if the players lack application and right attitude it really does not matter what formation is played....
Right Sven this is what you need to do, play 3-5-2 (see below), sit Fernandes in front of the back 3 just like Lennon used to do, only Fernandes would probably turn out to be better. Use Wellens for the box to box work a bit like Savage used to do and give King or Johnson a bit of a Muzzy like free role with the emphasis on getting into the box to support the front 2. Push Peltier and Konchesky on has much as possible. Make Wellens or Schmeichel captain. Buy another striker quick. Maybe 2 and wide player for a different option. Then get rid of all the dead wood. After you have done all that and won the lge you can donate half of your salary to me for pointing you in the right direction. ...................................Schmeichel..................................... .......................Mills.........Bamba.......St Ledger Peltier............................Fernandes....................... Konchesky ................... Wellens.........................King (maybe Johnson when fit) ..............................Nugent..........Vassell (or an other)
"We do not have the players for a 4-4-2" schimiechal peltier bamba mills konchesky gallagher wellens fernandes dyer nugent waghorn. ... so we could, but i like the 4-3-3. Just need to add to it a striker and a wide man!!!
I think the players dont fit into the formation. Abe was terrible and Danns shouldnt be on the wing. Drop Danns back into the midfield and Abe from the team. Put Dyer on the wing with Gallagher and Nugent up front for Wednesday. Fernandes look should be the holding midfielder with Danns and Wellens creating chances. We need a striker to put them away. Nugent will put some away but apart from him there isnt anyone else
Nugent isn't a lone striker. He needs someone to support him and the sooner we see a class striker in the better.
Thats the point there is no one else. Vassell and Waghorn are crap. Howard is suited to Svens style and Schlupp isnt ready yet. We need to get strikers in asap.
Do you think this diamond thing is just until Sven gets in the personnel he wants? With so many signings and such a big squad, it is strange to have players out of position. (no-one mention Martin Allen)
Make that 2 wide men. Gallagher would not be effective out there, and Dyer isn't good enough. I wouldn't want to leave Gallagher and King out, they are still big players for us. It would be a waste to have brought in Danns and Johnson as well. I prefer 4-3-3 myself, in any case it doesn't matter what formation you play - if you don't have good enough forward players and you play players out of position, you will be ****.
You think it was a diamond, others think it's a flat 4-4-2, others think it was a 4-3-3 gone wrong, others think it was a 4-5-1. Lets face it, Sven must have got it shockingly wrong if we can't agree what formation he was playing.
Sven said on Radio Leics to stringer that he started 433 then changed to 442? TBH if the players are not on their game and we make individual mistakes like we did on Sat then he can play whatever formation he wants cos we won't win!
I personally believe that a 4-3-3 formation is the best formation out there IF it is played well, because it is more interchangeable than a standard 4-4-2 as it can quickly change into a 4-5-1 when defending, and gives players more freedom to drift out wide and play deep. But to be played well it has to have the right level between attack and defence, which on Saturday we lacked as we had three predominantly defensive midfielders. My choice for a 4-3-3 would be along the lines of; DEF: Schmeichel Peltier Mills Bamba Konchesky (now this is where the flexibility comes in) 2 DM's: Fernandes Johnson/Wellens (one of these should support the front 4 if we need to score a goal, and/or also move to left/right side when full back attacks) King (making Nolan style runs into the box from deep and being a support striker) Danns (push out wide and/or move inside when the striker drifts wide) Dyer/Vassell (same as above) Nugent (central striker but must have ability to drift wide and pull deep with relevant support from King, Danns and Dyer/Vassell) If the 4-3-3 is too rigid and lacks the fluidity and interchangeability, it won't work as you'll have too many people doing the same job in midfield, and not enough support for the striker and wingers. See, easy peesy
I dont think Waghorn deserves to be in the team at the minute and Schlupp should be on the bench. Lloyd Dyer and Steve Howard should play before these 2 at the minute. Both had good pre season with Howard ending up as our top scorer albeit he got 4 in one games as Steve Oakley
The 4-3-3 did work and worked well last season. I think the main difference between this season and last season is our wide men. Gallagher had that role perfectly sussed last season. He knew when to come inside and suport the striker and when to stay wide. Danns was either too wide and didn't support Nugent or he was playing too deep and crowded out the midfield. The ideal place for a winger in a 4-3-3 is (most of the time) inside the full-back and trying to get in between the centre-back and full-back. Another thing was that, in the first half, none of the three midfielders supported Nugent well enough. When King came on, although he didn't have much impact on the ball, I think he helped the shape of our team because he naturally played closer to Nugent which meant one of Reading's midfielders had to drop deeper which meant we had more room for the likes of Wellens and Fernandes in midfield which I think was a big factor in our improved 2nd half performance. I would actually go to the diamond for Bristol City because that's when we have played best and until we sign another forward, I don't think we have two good wingers for the 4-3-3. I would play King for the reasons stated above and I would play Gally up with Nugent because he can drop deep and get involved in the play or he can support Nugent up top and we didn't look as potent from set-plays as we should have done with the players we have (Bamba, Mills etc.) Schmeichel Peltier - Mills - Bamba - Konchesky Fernandes Danns - Wellens King Nugent - Gallagher Subs: St Ledger Pantsil Abe Johnson Schlupp
