OT - Lancaster Bombers

Noticed from another thread that Aussie and West London Willy have a personal interest in these planes. Driving back from the excellent meet up today there was a great programme on BBC Radio 4 - Archive Hour - think it was called Bombing Berlin, including recording of a journalist during the war actually on a bombing mission. What I'd never appreciated was that of 125,000 bomber aircrew in the RAF during WW2, 55,000 died, unless I misheard.

Well worth a listen if you can track it down lads.

 

Regardless of the figures, these guys directly affected history. Legends.

 

In 1990, I bought a house from a fine gentleman, who was a Wellington bomber rear gunner. It was a private sale, so we had a fair bit of interaction during negotiations.

He was in the RCAF, on his 1st mission, part of a crew flown by an RAF pilot also on his 1st operational flight as pilot (after just one mission as co-pilot), when they were shot down over Bochum - he was the only member of his crew to parachute out alive. He told me that he blamed himself for not shooting down the German plane that got them - he said it was a captured Spitfire with German markings, so he had delayed firing back.

This guy grew up in the woods (later became Head Game Warden) and knew how to survive and live off the land. He made it all the way across Europe on his own, to the French coast, where he met up with what he thought was the resistance, but actually Vichy people, who turned him in and he spent the rest of the war in POW camp.

 

I came across that statistic before. Quite incredible really.

As NUTS said: Legends

 

For the RCAF:-

During its short life, 6 Group flew 40,822 missions in all; 814 crews never made it back, a 1.9% ratio. Some one hundred others crashed on British soil. A total of 9,919 RCAF airmen died while serving with Bomber Command, whether in 6 Group or in some other unit. This figure represents three-quarters of the RCAF’s 13,498 WWII casualties.

http://www.junobeach.org/e/4/can-tac-air-bom-e.htm#null

Tragic way for those 5 crews to end the war:-

6 Group’s last bombing raid against the coastal batteries in Wangerooge, on the Friesian Islands, on April 25th, 1945. Five Canadian crews were lost following a chain collision.

please log in to view this image

Halifax “J” of No 432 Squadron crashed at take-off at East Moor, Yorkshire, April 16th, 1945. The pilot, F/L W.H. Porritt, was killed but the other crewmembers were able to escape the flaming wreck.

please log in to view this image

 

Hi Folks,

This subject is very close to my heart. As a Bomber Command researcher and having spoken to many ex crew members, I could tell you all kind of stories but the truth is, nothing much needs to be said because we all value the efforts of these men ............ and let's not forget the magnificent women from the WAAF. They had to put up with all the carnage and support the crews that returned. Often, the remains of a rear gunner would be hosed out on return.

What many of you may not know is before any of these men were posted to an operational squadron, thousands perished there on your local shores, flying Wellingtons, Stirlings and alike, whilst training in HCU's
( Heavy Conversion Units ) and OTC's ( Operational Training Units ). Fact is, if you made it to an operational squadron, you were doing well. If you made it past your first operation, you were lucky. If you survived to 10 ops, extremely lucky ..................... to complete a tour of 30 ops, basically, 1 in 3 would make it.


Footnote - In most cases, the Luftwaffe attacked from behind, taking out the rear gunner. The problems for the rear gunner were ...............

1 - Luftwaffe aircraft could shoot from twice the distance of the RAF aircraft, so even if the gunners could see the attacking aircraft, they had to wait for them to get close enough.

2 - Most RAF operations were flown at night, temperatures reaching up to minus 40 degrees and beyond. The rear gunner's turret often had the centre piece of perspex removed cause they used to fog up. The rear gunner would have frozen icicles hanging off their eyebrows / most ache, etc ................their hands / body numb from the cold, whilst ( the aircraft ) twere being thrown around in the dark, often dropping 10,000 feet in a corkscrew' manoeuvre, flak bursting around them, shooting hot burning metal into the aircraft.

3 - The crews were subject to attack all the way to the target, whilst on their bombing run at the target and more of the same on the way back home ................. even when they returned back to their base, a
'night intruder' attack could still happen. The Luftwaffe had 'black' aircraft this very purpose, to follow the crews home.

Here is a photo, a rare day operation, from my fathers' aircraft. You will see the explosion of a Lancaster crashing below.

please log in to view this image

 

Also learned a bit the bombing tactics from this programme. For the mission described this particular plane in question dropped a 4,000lb air mine, which exploded just about on impact and was intended to blow the tiles off as many roofs as possible, followed by a large number of incendiary bombs which they hoped would fall into the much more flammable exposed roof spaces. In this case it worked, the resulting fire could be seen from the south coast of Sweden. Which is quite a long way from Berlin.

The journalist who was on the original mission flew the same route some 40 years later. His reflections were very moving - first time round the focus of everyone was dropping the bombs from 20,000 feet and surviving There was genuine elation when they saw the effect of what they had done, but the majority of their focus was purely on getting away alive. Second time round was the first time he really thought about the people below. No winners in this game, sadly.

The death rate of bomber pilots is the subject of the very dark Catch 22, well worth a read from the US perspective.

 

Last year, in my driving job, I was given a job picking up an LBC reporter, taking him to Hillingdon to collect a 94 year-old former bomber pilot and bring him to a secretly arranged meeting with the Prime Minister at Downing Street. The 40 minute journey down was to be used to record an interview with him about his experiences as a wartime pilot who flew over 60 ops. He had been one of a group of veterans who had faced losing his home over the cost of the memorial that had been erected next to Hyde Park Corner and, eventually, the Government had agreed to pick up the bill.

He lives in Scotland and hadn't been to London before, we collected him from his relative's home and the interview he gave was truly remarkable. He said he usually flew at No.2 in their formation and were constantly under threat. On one mission the No.1 plane was blown out of the sky right in front of him and his navigator was hit by shrapnel, he had to patch the navigator up before eventually limping home. The loss of so many comrades was often hard to take. He said the noise and smells are indelible. Just listening to his description make you realise you were in the presence of a truly remarkable man.

When we arrived he was just expecting to visit the newly completed memorial, after a brief stop to see that I got a message that the meeting with David Cameron was running late and we were to park up and wait for half an hour and that he would meet Nick Ferrari to see the Cenotaph. I asked him if there were any London sights he liked and, although not in the schedule, spent the next half hour driving around the centre of London showing him some of the sights.

Eventually, the message came through to drop him off at the entrance to Downing Street where he met Nick and the look on his face when told he was going in to meet the Prime Minister was priceless. For me it has to have been one of my most enjoyable days at work and just gave an insight into how much we owe that now dwindling band of heroes...

 

Brilliant story Sooper.

Very interesting thread this.

 

As I said on an earlier thread my uncle was killed in a Lanc in the last months of the war. He is buried in a small village just north of Paris with some of the other crew.

He is in a war grave imaculately kept by the WGC. What an emotional visit that was. The crew were a mixture of English and Aussies. If any of you from downunder are interested i can find the names.

I had a painting of the Lanc commissioned and it hangs in pride of place out here.

 

Whilst at UNB university I got to know this fine gentleman, Paul Burden, who always had a wonderful British Bulldog with him named Walter (Childrens' favourite book "Walter the Farting Dog" is based on his dog).

please log in to view this image

There is a rumour that after the war, flying his Lancaster back to Canada, Paul took a detour over his hometown, flying very low to give his family a good look.

Until I read this article , I didn't realize his brother died in the war, and later his nephew in a air training accident. Sounds like he was a really good man all round.

Paul Edward Burden, WW11 veteran, his abbreviated story

http://www.clarenceparkerbooks.com/tribute.shtml

Paul is listed as a student of the one-room school on Maple Ridge. The family was completed with a brother George, who died in WW II at the age of 22

Paul’s family moved to Fredericton and Paul went directly from school to the RCAF in 1940. He served as a pilot of both the Lancaster X’s and the Halifax III’s, planes in 123 Ferry squadron, 434 Sqdn, and the 405 Pathfinders Sqdn, (434 and 405 operating out of England during wartime).

He flew one operation, Exodus, to bring 25 freed ex-POW’s from Lubeck, Germany, and three operations dubbed Manna, which dropped food to the starving in Holland. In addition, he flew 39 wartime operations - all bombing missions - from England to targets in German. Later, in preparation for the Pacific Campaign in the war with the Japanese, Paul was part of Operation Tiger Force. Japan, like Germany, would soon surrender and WW II ended. Paul was fortunate to have been neither wounded nor hospitalized during the war. He was discharged in 1946.

Paul received the DFC cross and title, indicating the highly Distinguished Flying Cross for bravery; and, in addition, the France and Germany Star, 1939-45 Star; Defense-Briton, Canada Volunteer and Victory Medals for Wartime Service. Because of service to country and community, he later received the Queen’s Coronation, Queen’s 25th, Canada’s 100th, Canada’s 125, Canadian Corps of Commissionaires Meritorious Service, CC of C Long Service and Combatants of Europe medals.

Paul married Iris Southern, a section officer with the WAAF, the women’s auxiliary of the Royal Air Force. Their children are Christopher, Beverley, Betty, Michael, Penny, Nicolas, Peter and Martha.

On the lighter side, it has been rumored that several years ago a Lancaster Bomber was flown under the Fredericton bridge, certainly a feat that only a very skilled daredevil pilot would attempt. The mystery pilot has never come forward because, naturally, this act would create an RCAF investigation and the possibility of severe reprimand to a pilot. One would never suspect a former member of the Gunter Brook Alder Tree Pole Trout Fishing Gang to push the laws of the land and those of nature to such extreme limits.

http://airforce.ca/awards.php?keyword=&page=99&type=rcaf

BURDEN, F/L Paul Edward (J23035) - Distinguished Flying Cross - No.405 Squadron - Award effective 5 July 1945 as per London Gazette dated 17 July 1945 and AFRO 1558/45 dated 5 October 1945. Died 19 February 2005 No citation other than "in recognition of gallantry and devotion to duty in the execution of air operations against the enemy". Public Records Office Air 2/9082 has recommendation dated 23 March 1945 when he had flown 34 sorties (209 hours), 6 October 1944 to 20 March 1945.

6 October 1944 - Dortmund (7.10)
14 October 1944 - Duisburg (5.30)
23 October 1944 - Essen (5.50)
25 October 1944 - Homberg (4.35)
2 November 1944 - Dusseldorf (6.35)
6 November 1944 - Gelsenkirchen (5.40)
4 November 1944 - Bochum (5.40)
16 November 1944 - Julich (6.05)
18 November 1944 - Munster (5.55)
21 November 1944 - Castrop (6.35)
30 November 1944 - Duisburg (7.05)
2 December 1944 - Hagen (7.25)
4 December 1944 - Karlsruhe (7.30)
6 December 1944 - Osnabruck (6.40)
28 December 1944 - Opladen (6.35)
30 December 1944 - Cologne (7.05)
2 January 1945 - Nuremburg (9.40)
5 January 1945 - Hanover (5.55)
7 January 1945 - Munich (8.55)
14 January 1945 - Merseburg (8.35)
16 January 1945 - Zeitz (8.35)
7 February 1945 - Cleve (4.00)
23 February 1945 - Essen (4.05)
24 February 1945 - Kamen (4.30)
2 March 1945 - Cologne (4.15)
5 March 1945 - Chemnitz (7.55)
7 March 1945 - Dessau (7.45)
8 March 1945 - Hamburg (5.55)
12 March 1945 - Dortmund (4.40)
14 March 1945 - Zweibrucken (5.00)
15 March 1945 - Misburg (6.25)
16 March 1945 - Nuremburg (7.00)
18 March 1945 - Witten (5.15)
20 March 1945 - Heite (5.10)

An outstanding captain of aircraft in all respects, Flight Lieutenant Burden is a very keen and conscientious member of aircrew. Throughout his operational career Flight Lieutenant Burden has always shown great determination to press home all his attacks to a successful conclusion. The results achieved by his crew reflect well his leadership and skill. In all respects this officer is a most efficient and valuable captain and he has added in no small measure to the success and merit of the squadron.

Note: The September/October 1983 issue of Flightlines (Canadian Warplane Heritage) carried an article, “The RCAF Had Its Burdens Too !” The article noted that Paul Burden had a brother, Flying Officer George Burden, who was killed in action on 3 May 1945 (shot down by light flak while flying a Typhoon of No.439 Squadron). George Burden was killed before his son Malcolm was born. Malcolm joined the RCAF and became a T-33 instructor at Portage la Prairie. Killed in 1967 with a pupil when he “flew into the only hill in southern Manitoba.”

BURDEN, PAUL EDWARD - D.F.C. In his 84th year, Past Honorary Colonel Paul E. Burden passed away at the Veterans Health Unit in Fredericton, New Brunswick on February 18, 2005. Paul and his wife Iris (Southern) of 58 years raised a family of eight children. Born in Poquiock, New Brunswick August 7, 1920 many of Paul's early years were spent on his father and grandfather's farms. He left MacDonald College after one year to join the R.C.A.F. at the age of 19, enlisting on June 27, 1940. Trained as a pilot, Paul received his wings on Fairey Battles at Kingston, Ontario. For the next two and half years he remained in Canada, first as a staff pilot at #4 Wireless School, Winnipeg and then as a member of #124 Ferry Squadron, Rockcliff. Paul was posted to the United Kingdom in 1943. As a pilot with the 434 Squadron and 405 Pathfinder Squadron respectively, Lieutenant Burden remained active until war\'s end, completing 43 operations. He received his demobilization from the R.C.A.F. in 1946 after spending his last months as a troop conductor on troop ships crossing the Atlantic. Upon return to Fredericton, Lieut. Burden flew his Lancaster down Charlotte Street at tree level, his mother waiving her apron in response. During his career as an airman, Paul was awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross for bravery; the France-German Star, 39-45 Star; the Defense of Britain medal, the Canadian Volunteer medal and clasp, the Victory medal for wartime service, the Pathfinder Force Award and the Operations Wing Award. In recognition of service to country and community, he also received the Queen\'s Coronation, Silver Jubilee, Centennial and Golden Jubilee medals; Canadian Corp of Commissionaires Meritorious Service, Canadian Corp of Commissionaires Long Service and Fed des Combattants Volontaires Canada medals. In civilian life Paul was well know in the stationery profession and as a community volunteer. He operated Paul Burden Ltd. for 35 years, then Burden Office Equipment and Burden Auctioneers and Liquidators Ltd. In addition to his children, nieces and nephews, Paul gave many young people their introduction to the world of commerce. Numerous employees worked in his family operated business for decades. At one time he had more than 60 employees, all of whom he personally greeted everyday. Paul had a keen interest in community affairs, supporting a myriad of organizations. He was a member of Brunswick Street Baptist Church, York South Liberal Association, a Mason for 60 years and a Shriner. As a young man Paul owned the Montgomery Street Animal Hospital and bred bullmastiffs. He was well known in the dog show circuit. In latter years Paul pursued his life long love of animal husbandry, breeding Peruvian Passover horses. A proficient rider, he and his stallion, Tallisman, often participated in local parades and community events. His affection for children was a focal point in his life. Many summers were spent with family and friends at Lake George where Paul was said to have given every child a boat ride and a tow on water skis. Paul lived his life with purpose. He was a devoted family man, entrepreneur and gifted storyteller with a love for people, history and nature. In addition to his family, perhaps his greatest legacy was his love of country and his sense of fair play and honesty. His eternal optimism, sense of humor and gentle nature will resonate in those who knew him.

 

Heroes........each and every one!

 

Re: Paul Burden - he flew 34 sorties (209 hours), 6 October 1944 to 20 March 1945.

At times almost every other night - as a young man you would sure grow up quick, assuming you stayed alive.

6 October 1944 - Dortmund (7.10)
14 October 1944 - Duisburg (5.30)
23 October 1944 - Essen (5.50)
25 October 1944 - Homberg (4.35)
2 November 1944 - Dusseldorf (6.35)
6 November 1944 - Gelsenkirchen (5.40)
4 November 1944 - Bochum (5.40)
16 November 1944 - Julich (6.05)
18 November 1944 - Munster (5.55)
21 November 1944 - Castrop (6.35)
30 November 1944 - Duisburg (7.05)
2 December 1944 - Hagen (7.25)
4 December 1944 - Karlsruhe (7.30)
6 December 1944 - Osnabruck (6.40)
28 December 1944 - Opladen (6.35)
30 December 1944 - Cologne (7.05)
2 January 1945 - Nuremburg (9.40)
5 January 1945 - Hanover (5.55)
7 January 1945 - Munich (8.55)
14 January 1945 - Merseburg (8.35)
16 January 1945 - Zeitz (8.35)
7 February 1945 - Cleve (4.00)
23 February 1945 - Essen (4.05)
24 February 1945 - Kamen (4.30)
2 March 1945 - Cologne (4.15)
5 March 1945 - Chemnitz (7.55)
7 March 1945 - Dessau (7.45)
8 March 1945 - Hamburg (5.55)
12 March 1945 - Dortmund (4.40)
14 March 1945 - Zweibrucken (5.00)
15 March 1945 - Misburg (6.25)
16 March 1945 - Nuremburg (7.00)
18 March 1945 - Witten (5.15)
20 March 1945 - Heite (5.10)

Would love to know if he actually accompished that train bridge feat, which would have entailed real daredevil piloting. Today this train bridge still stands as a walking trail, where as it happens on Remembrance Day, 1945 another Lancaster bomber pilot, Bryan Priestman, died in a heroic cause - very sad story - on Nov 11th each year someone still puts a red rose on his gravestone, in the cemetery close to where I live.

Dr. Bryan Priestman, lost his life while attempting to save a small boy who had fallen into the St. John River. The date was 11 November 1945 and the eight-year-old child, Ronald Dempsey, also drowned.

http://www.lib.unb.ca/archives/finding/priestma.html

http://www.lib.unb.ca/archives/finding/priestman.html

"Early in 1940, renouncing the Quaker pacifism of his youth, but still being an enemy of "militarism," Bryan Priestman offered his services to His Majesty's Forces and joined the RCAF. "I'm not going to miss this one," he said, having spent World War One on the sidelines as a Conscientious Objector in the Friends' Ambulance Unit created for Quakers. By 1943, he had been promoted from Pilot Officer to Flight Lieutenant to Squadron Leader. The great enterprise of ferrying bombers from Canada to the war theatres was just under way when he saw in it an opportunity for more brilliant war service. By the time he was 48, he had navigated 35 bombers from Canada to the battle zones, setting a record in accurate performance which is probably unequalled in an Air Force or flying organization. According to the Departments of National Defence and Veterans Affairs, with whom I corresponded, Priestman was the navigation pioneer of the North Atlantic. He saved 24 of his flight plans and 32 of his flight charts and these were eventually placed in the UNB Library Archives."

On the lighter side, it has been rumored that several years ago a Lancaster Bomber was flown under the Fredericton bridge, certainly a feat that only a very skilled daredevil pilot would attempt. The mystery pilot has never come forward because, naturally, this act would create an RCAF investigation and the possibility of severe reprimand to a pilot. One would never suspect a former member of the Gunter Brook Alder Tree Pole Trout Fishing Gang to push the laws of the land and those of nature to such extreme limits.

 

After spending the best part of an hour trying to google the LBC interview I was mentioning earlier in this thread I've finally found the archive of the broadcast of the interview that was recorded in my car last November. The pictures taken at 10 Downing Street show Leslie and his 70 year old son Dudley who acted as his 'minder' for the day. Between takes Leslie kept referring to Dudley as 'my boy' even at 70! And you'll never meet a son prouder of his father.

Listen to the interview and you'll get just a flavour of what those pilots went through, truly awesome...

http://www.lbc.co.uk/nicks-surprise...-surprise-pm-visit-for-war-veteran/1882#27374

 

Cheers for that Sooper. To hear it coming from the horses mouth is totally different to reading similar accounts in books. What a marvelous character.

I gotta say, he seems a very sprightly chap for 94 years of age!

 

He was as sharp as a tack, you couldn't meet nicer or more deserving people...

 

Some really great posts on this thread, sb_73, Sooper, Kilburn and alike.

Every crew member that served is listed on 'Operational Record Books' for each squadron. YOU CAN PURCHASE THIS INFORMATION AND YOU DO NOT NEED TO BE 'SECOND OF KIN'
The prices the National Archive charge varies dramatically so if anyone wants any pointers, please let me know.

The information varies a little from squadron to squadron but in short, they list ...........

The crew members and service number for for all but RAF crews.
The operation, time out, time returned, bomb load, ( ie: the longer the flight, the lessor the bomb load )
All pilots flew what was called a 'second dickie' flight with another crew before flying with there own crew ( to get experience ).


For those wanting to see what an ORB looks like ............. the link listed below is the ORB's of my father and his crew. Also included are some mini short stories on a given operation and the odd photo.
These come from my father's Flight Engineer, Harry Parkins from Lincolnshire, for whom help me piece together my fathers' service details.

You will noticed they went through a number of 'mid upper gunners' ........ for various reasons.

link ....... http://sas.raf38group.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1439

Footnote - I have whole squadron records for 101, 196, 199, 620 and 630 squadrons. I'm happy to help members who may have had a family member serving with one of these squadrons.
Each squadron could have over a thousand pages of records so if want me to look up any records, I will need approximate dates of when the person served, otherwise, I'm
sure you can appreciate, we'd be looking for a needle in a hay stack.

I also have other researchers who have many other squadron records who may be able to assist.
To look up and piece together a crew members records, it can take up to 10-12 hours compiling the data, so any information forthcoming really does help to cut down time.
Short Stirling Aircraft & Crews, link .......... http://sas.raf38group.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=424&start=90#p5950
Handley Page Halifax Collection, link .......... http://sas.raf38group.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=876&hilit=handley page halifax collection

Note- If a image has been uploaded in j-peg format and you can only see part of the image, click on it to view the whole image.

 

I'm now re-reading a brilliant book - Aces, Erks and Backroom Boys by Edward Smithies - that tells the entire WW2 RAF story from all points involved, including the women working in the aircraft factories, the ground crew, the 'Bomber Boys' and the fighter pilots, Coastal Command, the WAAF, pretty much everyone.

We've all read the history from the top brass and the cold, factual stuff from a purely historical viewpoint, but this is a brilliant and insightful read telling the stories f those who actually lived it, day to day, across the country.

I actually bought the book originally because of this picture, that appears in the book:



This shows the crew of a Stirling 3 being debriefed by an intelligence officer after returning from a raid over Berlin in 1943, and the knackered looking chap in the foreground puffing away on his cigarette is my grandfather, Flight Sgt James Cannon (a rather apt name for a rear gunner)....