OT - Über's Open Debate Thread

So, in light of the news that US Intelligence (see also "oxymoron") is spying on the phone calls of Rectangular Merkel and Francois Hollandais-Sauce, some questions:

1) Is anybody actually surprised and outraged by this, or have we all always assumed that everybody is spying on everybody anyway, always have and always will?

2) Does anybody ever worry about whether the CIA, MI5, KGB or MFI have a file on them, and what aspects of our life has been captured for record?

3) Do any of you have concerns about who's monitoring your internet habits and for what purpose?

I look at the endless tripe my kids post onto Faecesbook and keep telling them that this stuff will likely be stored and accessible forevermore. Never before has so many aspects of one's life, from computer usage, buying habits, telephone conversations, whereabouts, personal particulars and actions been recorded and monitored to the extent that we see nowadays.

4) Do we truly live in a free society, or have we paid too high a price now for this 'freedom'?

5) Does anyone take the view that if we've done nothing wrong then we've nothing to fear, or, like me, do you believe that in a free society you should be allowed to have something to hide, i.e. there's nothing wrong with having secrets, just so long as they're innocent and harmless ones?

It's an interesting, if somewhat worrying, world in which we live. I'd be interested in your thoughts?

 

Very good and interesting post there Über.
When I can get to a proper computer instead of this I-phone I will try to do it justice.

Suffice to say, IMO, we should ALL be worried about who is watching us. Too many innocent people have spent too many years in jail due to miscarriages of justice for us not to be worried.

 

All Governments spy on all Governments.

 

They must be really sad if they're monitoring my internet use...

Seriously though, these revelations are just the tip of the iceberg. The technology they use makes the phone-hacking scandal look like child's play...

 

That might be correct Col, but immoral and quite honestly a waste of taxpayers money when 'they' are spying on their allies.

 

What do we 'know' about what goes on at the highest and not so highest levels of governance apart from what they choose to spin us, Snowden and his peers aside?

 

1. (a) No (b) Yes

2. No

3. I look at XHamster. They'll enjoy it too if they're looking in

4. No. Never did, never will.

5. N/A. See 4.

(Good OP, should be a good thread Ubes)

 

Hello,

Sorry about my very original user name, I have been reading this forum since it kind of took over from the BBC606 service but have been a bit shy of joining and posting.

Very good post Uber, I was thinking about this story before doing my before bedtime check of the Not606 QPR page. I'm in the not really surprised about the spying on each over camp, MI5 or MI6 whichever one it is most likely keep tabs on our own elected MP's. The only thing that gets my goat is that the secret services are not doing anything about these lying cheating bar stewards.

 

On the subject of covert surveillance, has anybody seen the German language film 'The Lives Of Others', which tells the story of a Stasi agent ordered to spy on a playwright and his lover to dig up dirt on him?

Don't be put off by subtitles as it's every bit as powerful and gripping as 'Downfall' and well worth the investment in time.

 

Cheers,

Iv'e put this on my one to check out list.

PS off topic from this thread but my gut feeling is Burnley 0 QPR 4 (AJ hat trick and Austin 1). Sorry I'll get my coat.

 

good thread by the way.

 

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I've known about it for well over a decade but tell someone about it and they make tin foil hat jokes. It was known as echelon for years.

Why do you think I can't stand them?

Remember they created al Qaeda, armed them, trained them then all of a sudden they became the enemy which they then used as an excuse to destroy everyone's privacy. Then suddenly now they are arming and training a Qaeda again in Syria. That's who the "rebels" are.

If we went to war with them, wed be on the wrong side.

 

Funny thing about Syria is if anyone remembers Bravo 2 Zero, which friendly border were they aiming to reach? Syria.

You dont turn on your allies. We have made a total bollocks of ourselves on the international stage.

 

Its all about the yanks making everyone trade oil in the dollar, their economy will collapse if others countries move to the euro which is exactly what BRIC wants.

That's why they invade the middle east countries and install puppet governments and its why Iran will be next. I think we need to turn our our supposed ally. Where were they during the Falklands? I'm really glad the general consensus of our people have completely gone against the US. Even our politicians had to take notice.

As for the monitoring, more people die slipping over in their bath each year than they do from terrorism.

 

1) I don't understand why there's this surprise about it happening. It's been a good 5 or 6 years since the authorities here asked the government to make it legal for them to screen every form of electronic communication between every individual in the country. At that point it should have been obvious they had the technology to do it, that they'd been doing it, and that they had evidence against people that was inadmissable in court. If they were doing it then and weren't keeping tabs on each other then they wouldn't be doing their jobs correctly, the point of these organisations being secret is that they're there to protect us by any means. If they'd been intended to stick to the rules then they'd just be part of the police force. Whether that should apply when the powers can easily be abused is a different matter.

2) and 3) I'm not really worried, I've got a knack of being so open about things that it becomes unbelievable and people think I'm trying to cover something else up with it, so they won't believe they've got a complete file on me anyway and they won't think what they've got is much use.

4) and 5) We never have lived in a free country, and having nothing to hide doesn't mean you've nothing to fear. Varying degrees of corruption in senior positions have seen to that*. Particularly in the police force where certain groups (football fans for one) are routinely denied their basic civil liberties for no reason, and when challenged about it decide to cover it up with lies and assistance from their fellow officers in other forces. Just look at the Plebgate thing, there you've had the police force altering the makeup of the cabinet by lying about a senior politician, colleagues from other forces lying about a meeting they had with that politician in order to discredit him, and then when he produced a recording and transcript of the event they put out an apology where admit lying and say they didn't intend to mislead (by giving a totally inaccurate report of events to the media ffs). Or look at our game at Huddersfield last season, travel restrictions placed on fans and limited tickets made available due to police intelligence at WYP. The inquiry into their conduct by another police force now says that there was evidence within the force from observers at our games, even though all their internal emails at the time showed them and their legal team saying there wasn't any and them frantically searching for anything to justify the decision after they'd taken it. That includes emailing every other force we'd visited asking for details of any incidents and getting replies back saying there hadn't been any. (so 2 questions, what had the observer seen at our games that the local police forces hadn't seen, and why were West Yorkshire Police attending all the away games of a club that falls under the jurisdiction of Humberside Police)

 

Yes, America is known as 'The land of the Free', you couldn't make it up...

 

Today's allies - tomorrows enemies - all governments have always had self interest - this always the way.
Good post. We will only miss privacy when it is way too late what we have lost forever - sad but I fear true - they scare us with paedohiles and terrorists to remove our liberty.