"Just a few thoughts on the heroes and villains of this campaign (so far, as it aint over yet. This is a kind of half-time retrospective). First the HEROES. Start at the top. CTWD. All-time City heroes for me. The tone they've set has been brilliant. Everything they've produced has looked or sounded immaculate. When mistakes have been made - such as the early protests - lessons have been learned quickly and not repeated (something the Allams could and should have realised is the way to approach things). When some said CTWD wasn't being aggressive enough, and when the group was goaded by the Allams, it stayed calm, positive and respectful. The contest for the moral high ground was never in doubt. Brilliantly run and brilliantly judged. I've owned only one City scarf since the mid-80s, but it's been retired now. Nothing will ever replace my cherished CTWD scarf. CTWD has within the course of a year set the template for football fan campaign groups for the decades to come. The campaign has shown that there are a lot of incredibly talented, hard-working City fans willing to go the extra mile for the club, with impressive results. While previous protest groups have done well by the fans, CTWD has made them look amateurish by comparison (to be fair, they were amateurs, but so are CTWD). Our hardcore fan base might not have the money to match the Allams, but it has the brains, the dedication and the influence to do great, great things. In fact, I'm going to name the members as best I can, because if I'm attending Hull CITY games with my son in 20 years' time, it will be largely because of Keith Ellis, Les Motherby, Andy Dalton, Andy Medcalf, Mark Gretton, Mike Scott, Pete Mills, Kate Ogram, Ian Waterson, Andy Beill, Frank Beill, Margaret Beill, James Greenwood, Rick Skelton, Lewis Cooper, Ian Berriman, C Cooper, C Ball, M Gothard, P Johnson, R Harmer and any others who might have been missed (Pheasant Plucker for one). Thank you isn't enough but it will have to do as it's all I've got. Amber Nectar I love AN, but I've never been prouder of it than I have this past year or so. Often when internet forums or message boards are unanimous on a subject it can get a bit staid. Not AN. The forum on this subject has been insightful, intelligent, informative and funny. In other words, AN at its best. For some reason I feel that Johnny Yen deserves a barrel-load of man love. For a newcomer to the board, he's really shone. City Independent I know it's not some people on here's cup of tea (not by me, I generally like it), but the tone of AN on this subject has been matched only by City Independent. Little things divide the two City fanzines, but the important things unite us. It's been every bit as rabid, passionate and downright 'proper' as AN these past few months, and it is to its eternal credit. Certain posters on Not606. What voices of disapproval for the 'No' campaign there have been on internet message boards have mostly come from Not606, some intelligently and in as reasoned a manner as I read anywhere (Mr Hat, TigerFiley), some cretinous (Happy Tiger, Patty N Chips 2). I hadn't really looked at Not606 until the name change stuff started, but I know that I'm glad we've had posters on there such as the estimable AN loanee Obidiah, PLT and the indefatigable originallambrettaman among others on our side. Their constant rebuttal and taking apart of some of the more inane accusations thrown at the 'no' crowd on there have been worthy of anyone's respect. The 'Ulltras. Like some others, I scoffed when the 'Ulltras were formed. I wished them well but I'd seen it all before, and wondered what effect, if any, they'd have. They've been brilliant. Garreth Roberts. Seeing such a genuine City legend come out against the name change so passionately was brilliant. Not bothered about affecting his employability in local football, his savaging of the name change was great to see. Adam Lowthorpe. The East Riding FA's voting against was the first truly significant blow the movement to the name change. Adam's role in that should never be forgotten. Oliver Kay and Martin Samuel. Their stuff on the name change was unsurpassed in the national media. Henry Winter hasn't been half bad. David Conn has been good, but maybe not great, in backing our cause (though to be fair he's been - quite rightly - covering a lot of the Hillsborough stuff of late). Richard Rae remains one of the most under-rated and excellent national journalists too. He has quietly fought our cause and strikes me as a thoroughly decent man. Cardiff fans. Their support has been brilliant. I can only wish them success in their campaign. I don't believe in second clubs, but if I did, Cardiff would be as good a place to start as any. I want Vincent Tan to be relegated but Cardiff fans to stay up. Can that be arranged? Other fans West Brom and Crystal Palace spring to mind, but the football family has seemed exactly that this season. The support we've had has been touching from all corners. Except Milton Keynes. The Football Supporters Federation. Welcome support and advice. Terrific, terrific people who didn't let us down. Not once. Join them. Join them now. Westy. I get the impression that he needs to be included on a list like this. Really needs to. I've been worried about him recently. If you're reading Westy, you're a hero. No, you are. BORDERLINE VILLAINS The HDM and Radio Humberside. I know some won't agree, but the best HDM City reporter we've had (Phil Buckingham), and the best regular City person we've had on Radio Humberside for quite a while (David Burns) were informative on this issue, but they, and the local press as a whole, seemed to hold CTWD to standards and scrutiny that the Allams were never subjected to. It does bug me that the Allams barely got a proper going over by a local journalist. They have, unquestionably, lied and contradicted themselves time and time again on this issue, as well as introducing a poll that was just plain vile, yet no one in the local press ever seemed to really challenge them on it in a manner that caused them even the slightest discomfort. I was pining for former Radio Humberside football man Chris Harvey - who didn't shy away from interrogating Stephen Hinchliffe, no less - to get hold of them at several points. Our case may have got a fairer hearing in local media than anything that opposed Chris Needler, Lloyd or the Hinchliffe/Buchanan regimes. Dave Gibbins and John Fieldhouse would have still been denying the existence of CTWD and referring to Hull Tigers in everything they did. Being better than those two is hardly an achievement though. I think most of the above reflects more on Burnsy - a real disappointment to me, as I do think that by local radio standards he's as good as you're going to get - than it does on the generally very good Buckingham, who hasn't got quite as emotionally involved. However, the subservience shown to the Allams by all (Peter Levy, and everyone else at the HDM and Humberside) in the local media has been pathetic as far as I'm concerned, and lacks the balance that they were no doubt convincing themselves that they were striving for. Even the YP seemed to see through the Allams, and the national media was far more happy to criticise them when they were coming out with their frequent bullshit. VILLAINS There are quite a few people who should be villains but in truth I don't want to see them as such. The Allams are undoubtedly the villains of the piece but we can't view them as villains, can we? Well, yes, I suppose so, but we're going to have to learn to try and love them again I suspect. And while Deano has dented his hero status, he's still ****ing Deano. He can never be a City villain and he will remain a legend. Tom Courtenay is still a great ambassador for the city, and his voiceover stuff for some of the City of Culture presentations was magnificent. Even Robert Crampton - who wrote so stupidly in support of the name change, making **** up to suit his agenda - generally writes affectionately about Hull and represents the city well. Gerard Toplass and Mike Whitehead are nonentities. Therefore I suggest that we focus the lion's share of our ire, hatred and general disgust on one man: John Leslie Prescott. His contributions to this debate have been embarrassing and insulting. The man is a ****-stain on humanity and an disgrace to our city. And he is NOT a Hull City fan. **** off Prescott. Go on, **** off. We should reserve a fair bit of venom for Russell Bartlett and Paul Duffen for planting the seeds of this situation in the first place too. That shouldn't be forgotten. Any others?"
Excellent post by him. And I'm proud of and very grateful for the part played by OLM from this board.
Was it Joe Lynch who started the petition off in the first place? And then it went on from there. Everyone whose connected to the campaign has my respect. Cheers. You've done a fantastic job.
They ran rings round 'Yes to Hull Tampax' quislings and their clumsy bullying methods, and shrewdly went easy on the old feller's 'lapses of memory'. A textbook campaign. Chapeau.
Agree with vast majority of this but I feel it's too kind on Burnsy and Peter Levy. Both of them are supposed to be journalists but they cowed beneath the arrogance before them, not wanting to upset the puppet master should he deny them club access. Both of them communicate with large numbers of local people who are not aware of the intricacies of all this, they failed miserably in their duty to their trade. Burnsy in particular appears to have become addicted to visiting premier league grounds. His acquiescence over the ballot particularly rankles, his assertion on Monday that there was a winner in what was so obviously a farce, was embarrassing for him and the BBC.
Regardless of their views on our name and the proposal to change it, AA would do well to employ CTWD as consultants. They have a breadth of expertise, love and knowledge of the club, and know how to engage with the fans. Qualities apparently lacking in those currently employed at the club. I'm sure they'd do it at a very reasonable rate.
Dave Burns is usually very good but the way he tried to convince everyone and possibly himself that the 9,000 pass holders who didn't vote were somehow in the yes to the name change camp was embarrassing. The ballot was appalling organised and the questions were loaded to favour the yes voters. And it wasn't exactly easy to vote. The OSC did it quite simply. Voting forms posted to all paid up members. Simply yes or no choice and you had to post the envelope back if you wanted to vote. 60/40 against the name change. No need for expensive adjudicators. Why couldn't the club follow the OSC example ? Great article on Amber Nectar. I would add Bernard Noble to the list of villians for the way he single handily (allegedly) turned the OSC vote against the name change into a yes vote.
[video=youtube;FZyGOx3AbDQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZyGOx3AbDQ[/video] This is what happens when people are allowed to get their own way for too long, propped up by gravytrainers with their snouts in the trough and surrounded by fawning 'yes men'.
lol what a silly self important ****. Still, name checked. Go me! Nice to know my questioning of CTWD was noticed, and explains why the hard questions were either ignored or buried under pages of ****. I feel quite chuffed with meself now. Don't worry, like you minority tosspots, I'm not going anywhere.
This is the only forum which appears to harbour simpering 'Yes to Hull Tampax' quislings. All others are 'No to Hull Tampax'
I find it interesting that you refer to the board as a whole, while stating we're a minority. I agree with pretty much all of what Crabtree has said. The bit about the local media in particular. I used to be big Burnsy fan but like the rest of the local media he's completely let the fans down regarding this name change situation, presumably out of fear of the owner.
I bet Happy Tiger has printed that out and stuck it on his wall , highlighting his name Well done you got a mention
In Burnsy's defence, it's a bit harsh calling him an almost villain. As entertaining as he might be, he's never been a good journalist when it comes to digging for information and putting people under pressure in interviews, so you can't criticise him for it now as though it's something to do with this issue or him liking visiting PL grounds. Just on the forums front, are there really only 3 forums used to any great level by City fans (AN, CI, and us), or is it just that the others haven't had anything of note to Officer Crabtree in the name change discussion?
He's not a journalist. Never has been. He's a football commentator who's also become a radio presenter. Yes, he should've questioned Allam more thoroughly, but it was never going to happen. Levy, on the other hand, is a journalist, and should've pressed harder, but he's a fanny with no interest in sport.
