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**** off Warnock

Discussion in 'Leeds United' started by bigfatboab, Nov 17, 2012.

  1. bigfatboab

    bigfatboab Well-Known Member

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    You are a disaster of a manager for Leeds United. I want you gone a.s.a.p. and you can take your **** backroom staff with you.
    You have put together the worst Leeds United squad ever and I don't buy this you were not given the money to get the players you would have really wanted pish. You put this squad together and they are pathetic, it is your fault and no one elses.
    **** off from MY CLUB and do it NOW.
     
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  2. Eireleeds1

    Eireleeds1 Well-Known Member

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    So who would you like as manager, given he will at best get a twelve month contract, a **** squad and not ten pence to improve it? I can see them lining up for the job
     
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  3. 2020VisionofLeeds

    2020VisionofLeeds Well-Known Member

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    "it is your fault and no one elses"

    You really believe that? I am no Warnock lover, but this is a bit like blaming the general in charge of Denmarks armed forces in WWII for losing to the Germans. There's always a context for a success or a failure.

    I know virtually nothing about football management (no doubt the OP has many years experience?) but I do know about managing other competitive teams (like sales teams) and a lot of the secret of success is about momentum: getting it, keeping it and capitalising on it. Failure is a lot about the opposite of this. There is often surprisingly little difference in the day to day decisions between the two, except the result is very clearly different.

    If the owners of a club are backing a manager to the hilt, and making adequate funds available (I don't mean silly money, but enough to do what it takes, given the size of the prize) then a manager who knows how to get a club promoted will be a lot more likely to get that momentum going.

    One thing that is indisputable is Warnock has proven before he can get clubs promoted. So why is it so bad this time? My answer - momentum. He has failed to get momentum and the big reason is lack of support by the owner. This isn't an anti-Bates speech, either, by the way - it might even be true what he said about having given SG a lot of money in order to get promotion (I remember that season SG more or less said he expected to go up with the squad he had... then didn't) - and it might not be true, I don't care. What is clear is Bates did not have the funds (or the will) to let NW spend.

    I am not interested in what other clubs may or may not have spent, too often people try to make out that we have spent (mention highly unlikely inflated figure) while another club has spent (mention equally unlikely figure, usually less than the price of a pint) and therefore current manager is useless. That ignores every club being different (and usually the fac ts quoted are highly questionable, too) - some clubs have stronger/weaker squads to start with, some clubs do/don't sell their best players, some want success in 1 year, others in 3, some sets of fans expect promotion, some would be happy with top half of table, etc etc. So I tend to compare what we have spent under Warnock(very little) with the £60m (ish) a year the club would get from being in the Prem - NW really has not been allowed to spend very much.

    So what then happens? Players you want to stay, can see what is happening, and no matter what you do they don't believe and they leave (Snodgrass an obvious example). Other players who might have joined if they believed in the project (and were offered more cash) don't - we will never know who they were for sure. The manager cuts his coat to meet the cloth available, so all we see joining are the players he might still have recruited if he'd had more funds - but as squad players, without signing the few key ones he could not get due to lack of both funds and momentum. Plus he ends up with more loanees and fewer signings, something NW specifically said he did not want. As a result the squad isn't quite good enough - nearly, but not quite. You start off not too badly, but can't sustain it, especially when as always the injuries start. The fans have heard it all before, many many times, and this time they have no patience and as soon as they see good players leaving, journeymen joining, loans galore..... they stop believing, and the home games are like visiting an undertakers on a wet Sunday in January. More dents to momentum. Next, fans turn on the manager, because he is the man apparently making the decisions, and there are always individual signings that have not worked out that they can blame him for.

    But the reality is he was not supported enough, and the result is he lost momentum (never got it, actually).

    One last point, tm illustrate the momentum point - imagine we had spent more last summer, got in some good players, kept players like Snoddy, and were now second or third in the table with money to spend in January - would the players NW approached about joining in January be more or less likely to join than now, when we are bottom half, falling away, playing to an empty stadium and - unless there is a TO - its very unlikely we will be spending much in the way of either transfer fees or wages?
     
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  4. 666 & Elmo

    666 & Elmo New Member

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    2020 - don't much disagree with what you said; my sole issues are that Warnock has been pretty disparaging of the team and squad which won't lead to improvement but rather things getting worse (you'll know that - as a team leader - sometimes you need to encourage to get the best out of players and develop that team mentality, instead of whacking them with a big stick (the "or else" factor) and his tactics (many of these players are ex-Prem yet few seem to be able to pass the ball simply, move simply to be in space to receive a pass, move fast, move creatively, and have stamina). They have done it before, they just can't (or won't) for NW

    I'd like him to turn it round. I just can't see it.
     
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  5. ThaiCanary

    ThaiCanary Well-Known Member

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    You can have Mark Hughes if he gets to boot at the same time as NW does <ok>

    Look at things another way, Leeds are not going to get relegated, there are far worse teams below you. It's just another season of consolidation or in Spurs case, transition.
     
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  6. 2020VisionofLeeds

    2020VisionofLeeds Well-Known Member

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    Momentum again. Sad fact is it will be a lot harder for NW (even if he was staying for another year) to get success now than it would have been on day 1. The only reason I really wanted SG to go was because we needed a new start, not because I thought it was SG's fault we had not succeeded.

    You are probably right on comments made on players too - again, though its a mistake, its probably one he would not have made had the momentum being going in the right direction.l
     
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  7. tommylion

    tommylion Active Member

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    Colin.....'sacked in the morning - he's getting sacked in the morning@
     
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  8. Josh-LUFC

    Josh-LUFC Well-Known Member

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    2020, Colin has done so many needless things as manager that has wasted so many funds. He has still easily spent over 2m and more than likely closer to 3m (I realise he lost snodgrass) and he constantly complains about the squad he has as if thats going to help them regain there confidence. The guy is a prick and thats not who we need as manager. He knew the situation and don't pretend he didn't, he just likes to complain. What annoys me more is he says he is going to act as if the takeover is never going to happen and then spend funds if/when it does but he is counting on it because he has put a **** squad together almost on purpose to prove a point.

    Take funds out of it, the tactics are still poor and encourage a boring game style. We don't break teams down at all, we don't even attempt to get the ball out wide to put crosses in. Becchio has been playing 10 times worse than he was under grayson (and I still thought he was useless then as well). He continually plays players out of position and expects them to do a job, Varney is **** (I don't care about a one-off carling cup game) yet he continues to play him and play him out wide at that. I have so much more I could complain about Warnock. I understand Bates isn't helping but a manager's issues are still the manager's fault, in all honesty I would not trust Warnock with any funds and I seriously want him out of my club and have done since his appointment, there is nothing positive he has brought
     
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