NUFC Youth System

The recent Fans Forum notes hinted at the club changing its approach to our youth system. Interesting article here in the Ronnie Gill about them (so Mike Ashly, basically) wanting to cut it back to save money because managers won't play youth players in the premier league so it's not worth bothering.

https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/spo...s/special-report-big-decision-facing-15263405

Utterly depressing, completely myopic and absolutely the wrong approach. We should be trying harder to find and develop local talent, pumping money into the community to get kids playing more and prepare them better for a long term future in football. Partnerships with clubs at lower levels of the football pyramid are also important IMHO to get them playing experience.

 

Completely predictable. Mike is ducking clueless.
Accept we are falling into the abyss.
Then drink cans.

 

IF he leaves, I believe there is a strong case for saying he is trying to **** our long term future out of spite. Will not invest in quality players, especially expensive strikers meaning HUGE investment will be needed. Will leave us with cloggers and journeymen, struggling to be capable of staying in the EPL. Forcing the best manager we could hope for out of the club. Wrecking the youth system. Leaving training facilities crumbling. Leaving the stadium in a state of disrepair. Stripped the club of land and other assets. And, potentially, tied to SD running the club shop and commitments to SD advertising for years to come. Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the Ashley legacy.

But, yes, cans are good.

 

Terrible decision but I have to say the responsibility for this lies not just at the clubs door, but the door of the PL and the managers (including Rafa). Ultimately the managers and clubs would point to the pressure the money league puts on them to stay in the division as the reason they can no longer risk young players in the PL. They would say they'd get a more consistent standard of football out of a 26 yr old Swiss international or the like, than they would from blooding a young 18 or 19 yr old. They would say that consistency could be the difference between staying up and going down. Rafa himself has a terrible record in his time here and in previous clubs of blooding young players.

https://www.themag.co.uk/2017/06/20...-career-record-young-talent-newcastle-united/

It would be unfair on Rafa to suggest he is alone in this approach. Its quite common among many of his peers too. Yet I'm not convinced the players Rafa has brought in and utilised are better than the likes of Aarons, Mbemba, Mitrovic, Mbabu, Armstrong, Merino, Longstaff, Sterry, Woodman who have either been farmed out on loan, left out or sold.

There are guys and clubs who have bucked the trend like Ferguson, Van Gaal, Simeone, Pochettino, Dortmund (or German clubs in general), Barcelona. Simeone and Pochettino were brought up on a diet of Bielsa approach to management so you can see why they have great records. Bielsa has a deep understanding and respect for the game. Van Gaal is dutch who have a rich history. To be honest there are a lot of clubs in Germany and France who blood young players in their top flights.

You need to change the culture here and we are now producing a better standard of player so maybe that will help force the change. It needs to though otherwise we will see a generation or two off seriously talented young players fail to reach their potential. As we have seen though, the new breed have the confidence to ditch clubs like Man C and head for Germany etc. I still maintain though, that there should be more opportunity afforded to the young English players, coaches and managers here in our own top flight. We are quickly reaching a crossroads where we need to decide what we want our football here to represent. The best of English talent with a healthy smattering of quality foreign talent, with a culture of opportunity for young players. Or a money driven international football league too scared to pitch the best young talent in to allow them to develop. There are signs of change with Spurs and I think young Foden will force Pep's hand into him replacing David Silva. It may only take 2 or 3 success stories for clubs to realise there is a better way of doing things without having a detrimental effect on your performance.

For the likes of Newcastle and Huddersfield to jump the gun now and give up is pathetic, and something they and the PL should be ashamed of for forcing clubs to even consider it. They are exactly the type of clubs who should be seeing a gap in the market. As these youngsters depart the big clubs in search of opportunity, why not go all out to present your club as one which is happy to provide that opportunity. The benefits would be huge and I don't think the risk increases that much. You'd of course have to take the very unpopular decision to change manager though.

 

We all know the reason why managers at this club don't give youth a chance - the FANS!

Over the years we have all seen youngsters who in their first few games were lambasted if they were not the perfect, world class, finished article.

A prime example is Jak Alnwick - was forced into playing due to injuries yet as soon as he made his first mistake the FANS were on his back. He needed supporting but NUFC fans are not willing to give that support.

 

And lets not forget Haidara. Poor lad never got a fair crack.

 

If you took your tongue from out of your cheek we could actually hear more clearly what you are saying.

 

To be fair he wasn't

 

are they good enough really. is the youth system just not full of local football coaches sons.

 

Tavernier should have been given a chance
Sterry should be getting games
Longstaff should be getting some game time
Woodman should be out on loan
Cal Roberts should eithe rbe out on loan or knocking on Rafa's door (can't be any worse than Atsu)

 

Bloke i go on holiday with, is a scout for london clubs .,also the chairmen of essex county level youth football .

He recons, our youth system is terrible m8. Low level .

 

Of course it is terrible but then it was before MA became involved!

 

Honestly I think that is just a lazy excuse rolled out by clubs and managers who are too afraid to give young players a chance. It is very easy years down the line when players have been discarded to say "ah look he amounted to nothing". You have to look at why. Potential is what all young players have, but you have to develop it.

We've had talented players in the academy and never developed them. Not as many as we should or would like but that does not excuse the club/managers failings. Its why the likes of Lewis Gibson look and think "You know what I'm not sticking around. They need a left back, have no money but still won't give me a chance." They also look at the previous academy players, see the lack of opportunity and think whats the point. This isn't a recent thing. It goes right back to the likes of Shearer and Carrick.

All the managers talk a good game but self preservation kicks in when it comes to putting their nuts on the line.

 

Part of the issue is the people who are employed as coaches.

It appears that if you are an ex footballer then you get a headstart into the coaching/managing side of the game based on the logic that if you played a lot of football games then you must be able to coach. NO.

Simple answer is that it can't do any harm but doesn't automatically mean that you will be a good coach.

As soon as the "jobs for the boys" philosophy ends then the better coaches may get the better positions and therefore improve the prospects of young players actually developing. I may be being unfair on Peter Beardsley but what got him the job at Newcastle? His coaching abilities, his footballing abilities or his name? As I say, I don't know but if it doesn't apply to him I'm sure it does in a lot of other Clubs at the higher levels.

 

Yet we sold one of our youths for 6m not so long back. Then there's Carroll and Dummett. Woodman will command a fee. Armstrong is, I believe, better than league one.
Don't get me wrong its clearly pretty gash, but is it worse than most others who don't have a reputation for blooding youngsters? I'd say not.
The issue I've always felt was the transition from u23 to first team. Looking back at Shane Ferguson, totally held his own for a few matches. Gets sent on a few **** loans, played out of position, returns with minimal value and confidence gone. Armstrong, all going well, thrown at Bolton and played out of position. I think that's why Rafa's been bleating about getting someone in specifically for finding the right loan club.

But the reason it will never work goes back to investment. We aren't in a position to blood youngsters unless it's forced through injury or a lack of options (Carroll, Dummett) due to the fact we're always battling relegation. Its such a risk to both the team and the player in those situations. The same applies when we inevitably ARE relegated, as Mike sinks enough money in to take us straight back up. Arma wasn't going to get in the team over Gayle, Nitro and Daz Murphy for example.

 

Also Forster!

 

But even when they do go out on loan, played in the position and DO well they still get dumped on - James Tavenier should be our starting RB as we speak.

 

Wasn't this around the time Mike was making his grubby little deals with Rangers because of duel interests? Bout 6 players joined on loan in Jan that season.
Still an issue of MA investment, just not in our club! Classically, he's shot himself in the foot.

 

Possibly but don't remember that far back

But a complete travesty that Sterry isn't being given a chance and Longstaff should now be classed as a first teamer.

 

To be fair though you are in a relegation battle whether you sink the lowest amount in as an owner or the 10th lowest amount.

Nothing changes. The bottom line is the clubs are being put in a very awkward scenario by the way the league is run. The risk is no where near as bad as managers like Rafa and the clubs would have you believe either. It is a lazy excuse they use, they all just like the easy option. When Southampton started blooding youngsters they weren't sitting comfortably in the top half. They simply had a manager who knew how to do it in an integrated no blame culture. As I say its not fair to single out Rafa, as he is in the majority not the minority. He does have a poor record with youth, and we've seen in his short time here he has no interest in giving them go, which has been to his own detriment undoubtedly.

We need to change our approach. Do we look to the league to introduce certain more stringent quotas? Perhaps. I just think the easier option is to look at the Jadon Sancho scenario and set yourselves up as a club who promote youth. These youngsters we are producing are seriously talented. Give them opportunity and they will come. Don't and they'll keep leaving for clubs like Everton who do.