Not sure about Ben Arfa 'in the hole'

One thing we can say about Nolan is that he's good at scoring goals for a midfielder. He seems more suited behind the hole than in his normal CM role. He's in the right places at the right times, and generally pounces on balls to get them in the net.

Now Ben Arfa can do this too, but imo he offers so much more. He's creative, has great technique and he's a great passer. To me, I think we'd get much more of his full potential if we saw him in a CM role.

Now Nolan has 12 goals, and he'd probably get more if he was specifically in the CAM role. You can't really ask for too much more than that, can you? What could Ben Arfa get? 15 maybe? A few more? It isn't a tremendous improvement unless he could bag 20+ a season in that position.

Nolan, in the CAM role, would do the job very very adequately indeed.

So what I was thinking was this:

---------- Tiote --------------

----Barton ----- Ben Arfa-------

-------Nolan - Jonas/Gervinho-

-------- New striker--------

Now this would actually do away with any official wingers. But I think with Barton AND Ben Arfa's creativity, technique and passing abilities, they could become our own Xavi and Iniesta , so to speak, and dominate the midfield along with Tiote, who would also be involved and have slightly more of a holding role.

I mean let's be honest here. Nolan isn't a particularly great CM, and Jonas can't particularly cross very consistently, so let's use them in roles which use their strengths perfectly. This would allow Ben Arfa to use his full potential in a critical role alongside Barton.

Just imagine it:

Tiote - Winning the ball, holding it and creating space

Ben Arfa and Barton - Dominating possession, moving up the pitch and creating defence-splitting passes with their accuracy and creativity

Nolan and Jonas - Pouncing on the ball. Jonas using his speed and skill to move around players, and Nolan being at the right place at the right time to take his shots. Gervinho would also be key in this position ahead of Jonas, if we got him (hypothetically speaking).

New striker - Taking what he's fed from Ben Arfa, Barton, Nolan and Jonas and turning it into goals. No predictable run-of-the-mill crossing, but highly creative and possessive play which opens up defences and sends the ball through to him.

I really think this is the future. Run-of-the-mill crossing is getting predictable, and crossing definitely isn't one of our strengths with the type of players we have. However, creative and accurate passing play with the likes of Tiote, Ben Arfa and Barton IS. Just imagine them three in the midfield man. They'd absolutely dominate it whilst we have a potent three-pronged attack.

What do you guys think?

 

Ben Arfa is nowhere near disciplined enough to play in CM and you wouldn't get to see his attacking capabilities. Nolan shouldn't play so high up the pitch because like with Lampard he is best making runs from deep where he won't be tracked so easily.

 

I'd think playing Ben Arfa further back isnt such a great idea. Jonas gets back a lot to help out defensively but in the few games we saw Ben Arfa play he was far more attack minded, helping the defense less. Especially if we still have Jose, I'd switch your Ben Arfa/Jonas around personally and keep the Amigos close together where they often help eachother out in both positions.

 

we want someone like sturridge who could also come wide otherwise we aren't utilizing our wings properly which would be a waste.

 

hmm looks alright but IMO to use Ben Arfas full potential we need to get him as far up the pitch as possible and i reckon Tiote & Barton can cover for all of Nolans shortcomings in CM. Would be interesting to see but plans like this don't always work so well in practise, playing in CM will Ben Arfa be able to dribble with the ball so much seeing as he may not get as much time and it may be more of a risk if he looses it

 

That's the thing. Ben Arfa probably pisses all over Nolan in the CM role with his creativity and passing, but I don't think Ben Arfa is THAT much better than Nolan in the CAM role in-terms of goalscoring abilities. Nolan managed to get 12 in CM, he might get 12-15 in CAM, so how much better could Ben Arfa be? 20+ seems unlikely doesn't it?

Plus, I don't think we'll even see Ben Arfa dribbling that much when he's in the hole behind the striker. He'll have to act fast before he gets swamped by all the defenders. He's good, but I don't think he has the Messi-like ability to dance around multiple defenders and take a shot whenever he likes. Even Messi doesn't do that a great deal. It'll be more about creating space and playing the right key passes around the box.

It's just my opinion, but I think we'd see all of Ben Arfa's potential in CM. His dribbling, his holding of the ball, his creativity and his defence-splitting passes. It wouldn't just improve goalscoring, but the overall play of the whole team would considerably improve.

 

I think we will swap between these two midfield's depending on the game.

This one if we want to be more defence minded.

Tiote----Barton
Ben Arfa---Nolan---Jonas​

and, this one if we are going more attacking.

Nolan----Tiote
Barton---Ben Arfa---Jonas​

 

NO!

Ben Arfa works best as a ATTACKING MIDFIELDER. To be a CM he'll have to be more disciplined and tactical-based(not including the other issues like defending, phsyical & mental strength, box-to-box activity, work-rate, marking, etc.) Arfa needs FREEDOM to fulfill his abilities and potential IMO. I'll rather we bought a midfield box-to-box engine in the summer if we want to play technical-based(Barca somewhat ''esque'' football). Graeme Dorrans/Holden(Bolton) come to mind(although Barton can be fulfill that role very profesionally as well).

My personal line-up for next season WOULD BE WITHOUT NOLAN(he's too much of a luxury player IMO) :

Harper
Simpson Taylor Colo Enrique
Barton Tiote
Vargas/NEW RM Ben Arfa Guti
Gamiero

Vargas, Arfa and Guti all have good enough pace, skill, technical ability & creativity to swtich and rotate positions depending on the situation/tactical scenario. I don't want NO TARGET MAN OR HOOFBALL ****. 50K+ deserve GOOD FOOTBALL ON THE DECK. Gamiero would have plently of supply coming from Ben Arfa and Barton. He'll give us a different option than we have currently(he'll run the channels, use his pace & dribbling ability & his finishing is very good). That's just me though, I just don't think Arfa will work in that position.

 

I'm on your side in the whole Nolan starting debate, Chappaz. Good thing is, Pardew's gonna play him so nee need to worry (unless you worry about too many choices)

 

I was expecting another kind of article when I read the title

 

Don't want to know why you went ahead and clicked then.

 

Well I think Pards will include Nolan in the strongest line-up, so I'm trying to think of the optimal way of including him and Ben Arfa where they can both use their full potential and what they can ADD to the team play.

And there's no freedom like the entire bloody midfield. Tiote has the ball-winning holding role, whilst Barton and Ben Arfa are free to dominate possession, carry the ball up and make those creative passes. It uses all of Ben Arfa's key traits, whilst also using Nolan's best trait by far (being behind the hole and scoring goals). I'd rather have this instead of a weak link CM with Nolan there and a CAM which isn't going to score THAT many more goals than Nolan would anyway.

And I don't know why people think Ben Arfa is some kind of rabid dog who only knows how to dribble and shoot in the right places. He's obviously a very intelligent player with creativity and tactical nous. Being creative doesn't make you undisciplined. If he can dribble and pass a ball in the right places behind the striker while he's being swamped by four defenders, then the CM role should be a piece of cake for the guy.

If we want to be more traditional then this would be mine, definitely. It's just a shame that a CM pairing of Nolan and Tiote wouldn't be as strong as Barton and Tiote, or Barton and Ben Arfa. CM is so so so so key to how well we play.

 

I think he's quality but i can't help but notice how many times he lost the ball against Everton (the only game i got to watch him in) after he beat 1 or 2 players,

 

Busted

 

At the end of the day it doesn't matter, Pardew has said he wants to play him in behind the striker...

 

If he has the problem of overdoing it and losing possession in tight situations (like near the box), then maybe he wouldn't be so suited behind the striker after all...

If he's in that role he HAS to be disciplined. More disciplined than in a CM role. He has to know when he won't be able to dribble past players, he has to know when to create space, he has to know when to shoot and he has to know when to make the right passes. He also has to make these decisions quickly before all the defenders swamp him.

 

Chappaz you make good points & I see what you mean BUT didn't you see Arfa's debut? He can certainly strike a ball & score BUT he showed great dribbling ability, pace & he was generally very technically accomplished(no surprise coming from the Clairefontaine academy). When HE RAN with the ball he looked somewat Messi-esque(IMO), so if he played as a CM then he'll have to also do his job of defending and marking which isn't one of his strengths. By the way NOLAN himself said somewhere in a intreview I think that as time goes on & the team develops & improves he'll have to ''make'' way, so even if he gets benched I doubt he'll make much of a fuss, although I'm not sure Pardew thinks this way.

 

I think the problem with putting Ben Arfa at centre mid is that he won't due the duties of a centre mid, and by that I mean getting back as well as forward. Plsu if he plays "in the hole" he will have more time on the ball in better positions on the pitch. He won't have to play a 30 yard through ball but a 10 yard through ball which is a lot easier and would happen on a much more frequent basis.

Also while in the whole he can turn and run at the defenders whilst on the ball but if played centre mid he would have to get past both the midfield and the defence. I believe his best position would be in the whole, but again this is just my opinion and I can see yours.

 

That's the thing like. I'd like to see Nolan replaced with a far superior CM in the starting line-up, but I don't think it's gonna happen anytime soon.

It's great if he runs and dribbles in a Messi sort of way, but in the CAM role there HAS to be an end product or it'll be wasted attacks. He needs the discipline to know when to do certain things in high-action situations. If he just keeps attempting to dribble he'll eventually lose it most of the time. As TheLittleGeordie said, he seems to suffer from that issue already where he takes it too far.

He'll turn out awesome wherever he's played though. I think in his full debut against Everton he was very excited and eager to impress, so he perhaps took on more than he should have. However, as he calms down and gets used to the club, I believe he'll start to think more tactfully and will consistently make the right choices - whether it's a dribble, a pass or a shot on goal.