So I’m interested in opinion here; but my basic reasoning is as follows - what is the ****ing point of free healthcare if it never helps you?
The NHS never helps you? I'm shocked to hear that. You pay taxes for the service, so there is a responsiblity to provide a service to you if a need is there. There is a complaints portal, or failing that a plethora of solicitors who could mount a legal case re negligence if you feel it appropriate. Litigation is big business these days
You need to go and live in a country without free healthcare to truly appreciate the NHS. Sure it has its issues due to underfunding, a bloated management system using resources that could be better directed at frontline healthcare and too much emphasis on treatment rather than prevention. However it goes a long way to meeting the basic requirement of equal healthcare for all and leads to both better quality of life and prolonging our time on this planet. In countries without free healthcare the standard of care is directly related to what you can afford, the poor die younger as they don't seek care until they are seriously ill. A family member becoming seriously ill impacts on the wealth of whole families as they are forced to try and fund treatment to try and save them. I think we also need to look at ourselves and our lifestyles and how they impact on the quality of service the NHS offer. Apparently pre-pandemic was the first time in many years that average life expectancy fell in UK mainly due to issues associated with obesity. The amount of time and money ‘wasted’ treating people in A&E due to alcohol-related incidents or smoking is also something we have direct responsibility for. I don't know what the solution is to this. I am sure surveys have been done on the overall cost of smoking, obesity and alcohol to the NHS and whether that is offset by reduction in NI pension payments, due to the impact on lifespan for people with illnesses associated with them. However introducing some incentive to people to live more healthily (free gyms and fitness classes, reduced NI contributions) might be worth considering. Its an issue that always causes arguments - should someone who indulges in dangerous sports (rock climbing, parachuting) also have to pay an excess? For all its problems the NHS is the one thing that has led to increased lifespans for the whole population for most of its history, rather than those that can afford healthcare, which I think was its point when it was set up, so it is working.
As someone who has been under the care of the NHS for the past 60years I can safely say it works for me. I dare say, I've had more time and effort spent on me than the average person so I probably see the benefits where others may not. I'm currently in hospital where I've spent most of the previous seven weeks, 28/49 days. No indication when I'll be discharged. As I look around the ward this morning, I'd say most need to be here, majority are elderly, not obese nor alcoholics, they are simply old. In this bay of 5, I'm the youngest by some way. I'm not sure where any of us would be without the NHS. Actually, in my case, I'd be long dead. All I would say is its a fools paradise to think that it would be better without the NHS, and echo what DPP has already said. Go Private if it works for you.
I had two experiences of the NHS last year and I have never really in the past. I had two hernia operations one which was 4cm and the other 10cm. The first (4cm) my experience was good. Staff where polite and it was all relaxed. But in covid world. So a lot of things on hold. The second (10cm) was serious for me and my experience was poor. Staff where clearly over worked, stressed and unorganised and it was evident. Staff where rude and looked knackered. Basically it wasn’t their fault but the people running the show where over working them. We do need the NHS but I do think we can make the system better. The issue is doctors practices are also over worker and probably under funded. There are far to many people relying on the NHS to look after them as they “pay their taxes” when actually half of them could probably look after themselves reducing the pressure and giving the right attention to the people who need it most.
Another issue is this contract set up where they HAVE to use certain companies no matter what the cost. Then you have the people getting paracetamol and such through prescription when they could buy it for less than a pound. However the biggest nhs problem is the management. Managers for managers sake.
The government could start by not taking as a benefit in kind.. private healthcare. Anyone going private is lightening the burden on the NHS so shouldn’t be penalised.
The NHS is one of the most efficient healthcare systems in the world, Consistently ranked around 10th best healthcare system (based on a variety of measures and by a variety of different indicators) it is also cheaper than most other developed countries (half the cost of the USA and 2nd lowest in the G7). This is based on impirical and measurable indicators rather than subjective opinions or anecdotal experiences. Obviously it does not always work well, it would be impossible for it to do so but that's not the same as it "never" helping you. I suspect you've had a bad experience and I'm sorry to hear that. Information on how it "generally works well" isn't likely to make you feel any better.
A great example of how it doesn't work well in America. Diabetes is a manageable condition but only the acute care is covered for free in the USA whereas the overall management and costs are not. It results in people have to either a) pay out massive fees for a condition we manage in this country or b) people saving money and just not managing their condition. As a result of which they crash more often and need more urgent intervention (which is very expensive - LSE worked out it was 3/4 times more expensive to treat the complications of diabetes rather than preventative measures) Even financially is a car crash, they spend 11% of their health-care budget on diabetes alone (this can be hard to measure as there are many "diabetes related" costs/conditions - some have the USA spending 20%+ and the UK spending 10%. Either way they spend a much higher amount and people get less)
Except the Private Healthcare companies are employing medical staff thereby reducing the staff and potentially the quality of the staff available for the NHS. I’m not against private healthcare per se but something has to be given back either directly or indirectly.
they would struggle if they didn’t employ medical staff. Were you expecting builders or clowns or jugglers or something to be employed? If the NHS is funded and ran correctly then through training and recruitment they can compete too. paying twice or thrice for something isn’t fair on anyone though.
I'm personally thankful as I have Epilepsy and seeing the amount my medication would cost in places like the US frightens me.
1. Good one…. 2. The NHS wouldn’t be able to compete on salary meaning they would lose out on some doctors and nurses. Plus too easy a statement to make which even with the best will in the World would take years to show signs of progress. We don’t live in Nirvana. 3. Whoever said life was meant to be fair? Fair for one isn’t fair for another and vice versa.
1- cheers 2- just wild guesswork. You know the importance of facts. 3- tough- pull the ladder up Jack.. I wanna pay less taxes
Having health insurance in the US, this thread makes me cringe. Doesn’t matter how much the NHS has been underfunded, people still get care and don’t go bankrupt paying for it. I pay through the nose and still get screwed from deductibles. You also have to wait a good deal of time for most appointments. And I’m one of the lucky ones… Pity the fool who has to go to ER… Count your blessings, and never take the NHS for granted.
