After the saints v Leicester match I realised how overrated english football is. The championship can offer some good games,but I've witnessed very few this season.As Beckenbauer described the English national team at the world cup as a 'kick and rush team',it annoyed me a lot at the time but I now realise that he was right. Last night,as we all know,saints were terrible and Leicester were far superior than us in every single way,but I reckon that they didn't manage to string more than 5 passes together last night,it was truly 'kick and rush' football,it's worrying in every single way at the massive lack of technique that a lot of our players possess at this level,it's quite shocking. In the EPL it's a different story,a league that's full of skillful players(most of them foreigners) so it's easier to play pass and move.I'm not saying that english footballers are rubbish,this is not intended to be derogatory towards our players,our english players,but something is wrong here.We know that saints have been passing the football around this season but they stop passing it when under pressure or a goal down which shouldn't happen. There are english player than are full of technique and skill,Wilshere,Adam Johnson,Lallana...but they are few and far between... There are other players that show as much passion and drive as the english players but we seriously lack technique and skill. I'm not saying that players in the championship should be as skillful as david silva etc but they seem to lack basic skills,well that's what I thought anyway... I know that teams in the championship close down on teams and stop them from playing but I just don't think that all this 'kick and rush' football is good for the game,and our footballing nation...but every team is entitled to play the way they want to,but people shouldn't complain when we get knocked out in a major competition. The only thing that Poyet said that was right was the lack of technique in english football,he was right...
don't agree on the 'English game' generalisation. Its down to manager's tactics in the main. there are managers throughout the pyramid who want to play good football and their teams do so, there are other manager's throughout the pyramid that want to play kick and rush and their teams do so. However I have said several times, mainly in defence of our players when they are criticised by the 'supporters' on her, that since mid December 'kick and rush' has increasingly become our tactic. I have said that we aren't a one man team (Lambert) but we are increasingly playing as if we were and making Poyet's comments last year a much closer reality. As a team that was passing the ball around and nothing like a 'one man team' it is quite obvious that this is a tactic and not a player's fault. Those same players that played the passing game are now playing the hoof game. So Nigel needs to think about it!!! TBH before the squad started being 'rotated' it was good football. As soon as the cup games kicked in and the midfield was being swapped around it has become the hoof stuff. And the hoof stuff started the 'rot' IMO where we have hardly gained any points since it became a 'kick it to Rickie' gameshow!!! I'm a big fan of Nigel but at the moment and wondering what he is up to!!! Hopefully it'll revert back to how it was. So in answer to the OP. Nothing wrong with the English game. Manager's decide how their team will play, he plays to his player's strengths admittedly but ultimately he puts players into his teams to match the style he wants to play. The best bit? following watching my team the Saints play Leicester with my Portuguese brother in law and listening to a few 'derisory' comments (which I agreed with we then watched his team 'Sporting' and I took great delight in watching a dour 0-0 where one team hoofed it to Sporting's keeper and Sporting's 90% possession resulted in many '10 points to Wigan' and many oscar nominations!!! Too much is made of the 'technical' merits of the EPL. There are a few teams play good football. some at the top and some at the bottom however some top managers do not play flowing football. Mourinho would defend, defend then break. Was pretty boring stuff. In Italy and Spain there are a couple of teams playing great stuff yet behind them it is a continental version of the SPL at the moment. I'm not a fan of kick and rush in the slightest. Just saying it is a tactic decided by the manager. If it weren't his tactic he would put players in that could follow his orders and tell the 'kick and rushers' to 'sort it out or you'll be reserve forever'.
Saying English games are kick and rush shows to me a lack of understanding of the English game of football. Similarly an English player not having the technical skill of his foreign counter part is just rubbish. As the game against Leicester showed....when the mid field is packed and the opposition is pushing up to the last man very often the only way to create an opening is over the top. Saints were bad, but they were worse on the finishing front. A couple of good saves and some bad shooting did for us on Monday. Saints passed their way at times however an awful lot of their passes went astray. To generalize English football based on and using the Saints game as an example is really stretching things a bit far!
Personally I much prefer watching Spanish top flight football to English, saying that I prefer watching Italian and German matches more than most English games. I don't think the Premiership is "kick and rush" but the speed it is played at is certainly much faster than on the continent. This leads many people to believe it is much more exciting and better than other leagues, thats fair enough and I can see their point. Faster tempo in theory leads to game being more stretched meaning players get more space and therefore more chances are created. For me personally I much prefer a slower tempo game where players have to crack open a defence or break a team down. Think it was Moyes who said watching a La Liga game was like watching someone paint a masterpiece as it was very intricate and thought out, where as watching the Premiership can be like watching one of those "modern art" people throwing paint furiously on a canvas, fast paced, alot of the time not 100% thought out, but exciting to see where it leads to. Bringing in the national team, the reason they fail so consistantly is because they don't play the fast high tempo game when they play. This is down to the manager generally, but the other problem is that if they do play the fast high tempo game, if they lose the ball, because other countries are so well practiced in slowing games down and finding holes and space with not much effort, they will always be able to find holes in the English team.
Beddy, I'm glad you raised the technical skills bit. It seems to me that when you watch the game as a supporter of one of the teams you can miss stuff. Yes, you couldn't help but notice the skill of Terry Paine as he beat another player and hung in the perfect cross for big Ron. Or the speed and skills of young Channon, or that bloke we got from the channel islands who could do a few clever things. But generally we don't appreciate the incredible skill levels of many of the players we watch because we aren't watching properly because we are too tensed up about winning or losing. A lot of my football watching has been with mates who have supported other teams. I remember once watching a young Paul Scholes and being mesmerised by how he trapped and laid off the ball. As a once fairly naff midfield player myself I was totally gobsmacked, but my mate hadn't got a clue what I was talking about as he had been so immersed in the passion of supporting his team. All he could say was "Yeah, he's sound" in a Manc whine! You are quite right about the crowded midfield on Monday. Give Schneiderlin the freedom of the park as many players of his type get in other leagues and he would murder teams. Even Stevie Gerrard in his pomp struggles if he has someone in his face (unless it's in a nightclub, but we won't go there). But because it is so crowded we do need to play it long at times and no this does not mean hoof ball.
I think this is wrong to be honest. I remember hearing all the managers of recent times talking about how they need to play differently in Europe, a 'european' style. Wenger for one however I also remember the early days of Ferguson at Man U doing this. Man U couldn't compete. Once Man U started to play their usual 'English' game and not change their style they started to do very well. To this day they play the same style in Europe as they do in the PL and they are 'conservatively' in the top 4 european teams. Probably top 2!!! This season is a blip on an otherwise incredible past 20 years record. Remember the great English teams that did so well in europe? Liverpool, Forest, Man U recently? they did not change their style. They challenged the opposition with the 'English' style. Fast paced, unrelenting pressure. Much more shots on target. The basically said 'If you can cope with this then you deserve to beat us' Not many did though!!! We seem to be obsessed by saying you have to play differently in Europe or Internationally. 'The game is much more patient', 'the game is played at a much slower pace'. Tell that to the French team that dominated for a few years!!! Tell that to the Brazil and Argentina sides!!! These sides play the pressure game just as most English teams do. Doesn't always come off of course but it makes sense to play the game as you do week in, week out rather than try to change tactics to which the players aren't accustomed. What does for the England team is not that we play too fast a pace. It may be that they are too impatient and play long diagonal balls all the time, or when frustrated hoof the ball forward. The problem is a 2 way thing but both because we give the ball away too easily because. 1 - We play all these long 'prefectly placed' passes to corners. Even when 90% are precise it means a player then has to hold the ball up on his own while the rest of the team catches up. Mostly resulting in passing the ball backwards again or losing it. The other long balls are just giving the ball away because they are not accurate. 2 - We try to play the 'European' style in midfield. Our failing is nothing to do with technique or ability. It is a problem of not playing it day in, day out and we 'overdo' it. All these pretty triangles are great but they need to be productive. Other teams do this but move the ball around more. Sometimes we do it and it is like we are playing 'piggy in the middle' Then the 20th pass goes astray and......we lose the ball. So if England (just as ManU in Europe do) just played the 'English' game which does involve passing and not just 'hoofball' as AB is suggesting, then England would pose a threat purely because the players would be playing something they are well used to. Something they are practised in. A fast paced attacking brand of football which has a passing game at it's root with the ability to mix it up as well. something that Man U, Arsenal, Tottenham, Hiddink's Chelsea and this year's Man City have done or are doing at the moment. I would suggest that once Dalglish gets Liverpool's team exactly the way he wants it they will add to this group. That accounts for the majority of the England squad, all playing at the top end of the PL and all playing fast paced, 'English' Style football. The final piece of the jogsaw would be to get rid of Lampard because his 20 shots a game from 30 yards loses the ball as well
Umm thats what I said? The reason England fail is because they try to play the European style and they are not used to it so get beaten by opposition who are more used to it. This is why there should be an English manager in charge or a foreign manager who has managed in England for awhile, more than any other reason, because he knows how English teams play.
Leicester pressed us right up the pitch. The idea being to cut out options and hurry the opposition into decisions. Barca do it too, but often dont get enough credit for being rock solid defensively because they tap the ball around so much. Agaist a team that does it really well, kick and rush is probably the best way through. Teams like Barcelona don't have to change their style because what they do beats all but the most resolute of teams. Everyone else has to do their homework and make changes game by game. Not every game can be shining football - It's the same across Europe.
Sorry misread it. I agree totally with what you say. English football isn't the problem because English football IS NOT kick and Rush. The problem is that we try 'not' to play English football. he, he. Well said although I did enjoy ranting . lol
The U18 team were undone last night by a good old fashioned kick and rush team with big centre halves and a bug fast centre forward.
Kick and rush wins games at youth level, no doubt about it. Such a simple game doesn't translate to senior football though as defenders can deal with it and the team don't learn how to break defences down with ingenuity, which is largely how it's done at the top levels. Not winning every game is a worthwhile sacrifice for bringing through rounded players who can add something to the first team.
