More on the Stoke game (after watching highlights)

Hi, just thought I'd share some observations from the highlights as I'm watching it as we speak.

On the Stoke goal:
-Debuchy did not do well in stopping the cut-in and shot.
-Willo made 2 poor headed clearances that led to the goal.

Whelan's sending off:
1st yellow was a result of his kicking the ball away 2 seconds after the whistle had gone, and clashing with Cabaye.
On his 2nd yellow, it was definitely worth a yellow as he lashed out hard at Cabaye. (At first I didn't think it was that fair to him, but please watch it in real-time speed and you can tell). He already knew he was gone, he never really stopped walking towards the dressing room or to protest against the ref.

Wilson sending off and penalty:
It was clear penalty...Clear as day, the best angle is the one from above the goal.
Brilliantly played through ball by Anita as well.

Willo handball:
This should be clear to all who follow football. It was a handball, simple as that. No idea why it wasn't given though, and we were lucky to have benefitted from that. I mean, when the ball hits ur hand in an unnatural position as it was, there is no reason why it shouldn't be given, in my opinion.

Gouffran goal:
Ben Arfa on the byline. I don't think the ball crossed the line at all, this is based on personal experience of playing the game. But even the camera angle was inconclusive. There is clear parallax error from the cam near the penalty box. Additionally, seeing as the Stoke player did not overly protest, I assume he himself didn't think it was out.

Ben Arfa:
From a short corner, Stoke probably didn't have enough players to mark both Ben Arfa and Cabaye from the corner, Ben Arfa's shot hit the post. Later on, on a break after Adam loses the ball cheaply in midfield to Sissoko, Shola overdribbles, and ball falls to Ben Arfa on the right, who beats his defender, cuts back and cuts past a sliding defender again, only to lash his shot against the crossbar. Not his day.

Cabaye goal:
Sublime finish there. Not even Krul would've saved that. Well-worked, pass from Sissoko finding Debuchy, who's head back finds Shola who knocks it down for Gouffran who gives it to Debuchy, and he finds his buddy Cabaye to curl it beyond the keeper .

Cisse (Pen) goal:
Obertan possesses Ben Arfa for awhile... who couldn't find the ball after 2 stepovers, but he recovers before Pieters gets to it. Pieters takes Ben Arfa cleanly out, bailing him out, and saving his blushes. No question about the penalty. Cisse's pen made me have flashbacks to his previous one...which the ball is probably still in orbit as of today..
But jokes aside, it was a very very good penalty.

No sign on the other penalty claims on the highlights I watched. Don't think I'd go into that, we all know we had 4 good penalty claims which should be given (the only other one I can remember was a blatant shove on Cabaye by Shawcross)

All in all, not gonna feel sorry for Stoke, as there are days where your team gets calls their way and there are others where they don't go your way. Glad that we got 3 points, on to the next game!

 

the bbc are ****e for not showing the the goal line camera that they have instead of the angle they showed, which in now way could prove that the ball was over the line before ben arfa crossed it. the whole of the ball has to be over the whole of the line.

re the willo hand ball - was this deliberate hand ball? it has to be deliberate for a free kick to be given. The ball was kicked at his hand which was in a natural position from a yard away. In no way was this deliberate hand ball.

 

I'm guessing this was the ONLY way that Martin Atkinson ruled to play on. There is just no other explanation why the obvious handball was not called. So if you give the benefit of the doubt to the defender, that is an unintentional handball. However, I am still skeptical of the rules on this. If the ball strikes your hand when your hand is away from your body, that is handball isn't it. Think about a goal-bound shot, that your hand gets in the way of, and your arm wasn't beside your body. Anita's handball at the post against Manure for instance. How can you not call that if you see it? It was in a natural position, if you allow players to hold onto the post, but the hand clearly stuck out where it should not have been to prevent a goal.
This is a very very gray area in officiating I'm sure, do you call handball if the arm is away from your body, how do you deem it as deliberate.

 

Anita hand ball was not deliberate so it was not given. The ball hit the post and then his hand. No way could he have got his hand out of the way if he wanted to.

In reality there should be very few hand ball decisions as most of them are not deliberate.

 

I have always said that if the ball hits your hand its a freekick regardless of intention. Then, if its deemed deliberate then it should be a yellow card! If the ref aint sure then just a freekick. Simples!

 

Williamson is two yards away from the decision, that is why the decision wasn't given.

 

This would be the only way to have complete consistency but, as an ex defender, I'd hate to see this brought in as it would lead to a reluctance to put your body in the way and may even lead to players aiming for the hand when there is nowhere else to go. In theory, its not just handball that has to be deliberate. There is no such thing as an accidental foul. In practice we know it doesn't work like that. I think the current situation of refs having a bit of room to interpret the situation is the best even though there will be inconsistencies. Yesterday Willo was lucky. it was a handball for me but what the hell - we won

 

The Willo one was poor but otherwise the ref was on the money. It seems harsh when all you watch is highlights, but those at the game realise what went on for the first sending off. He fouled someone, got lippy, kicked the ball away and told Cabaye he was going to kick him. He then sought out Cabaye and just ran over and kicked him. Not horrific, but a sure fire way to end up with two yellow cards. It reminds of Guthrie that time when he just ran over and kicked ***an. More force than Whelan but same blatant intent. I'd have been furious with him if I was his manager. Idiotic.

The second one is not even a debate.

 

The Willo one is poor on repeat viewings but to be fair the ref was right there and MUST have seen it.

He can only have felt it was unintentional. The thing is these days, rarely are players hands by their sides given the use of the arm for balance and motion etc.

I think with Willo's his arm is coming down as the ball travels upwards perhaps suggesting he couldn't pull it away quick enough.
There's also a decent argument that the ball is played into an area that not even the Stoke player anticipated never mind Willo.

The difficulty with these incidents is that if the ref knew the ball would immediately break down the other end for a goal he wouldn't have given benefit of doubt and played on.

I think it's right though that technically the officials should just give them regardless of intent and stop blurring the lines...

 

Unless the player is Steven Bloody Taylor

 

In all fairness, Taylor slipped and put his hand out to break his fall.

 

To be honest, if some bastard had just shot me I wouldn't really care if I'd handled the ball or not!

 

To be fair, I'm pretty certain there was a sniper in the building.

 

There was the challenge by (I think) Shawcross on Haidara near the end, which saw Haidara require treatment before continuing.

 

To clarify my Steven Taylor comment (above). I was suggesting his inate inability to seemingly go a whole match without a deliberate handball.