Not sure how many on here watch MNF on Sky - Neville and Carragher doing the tactical analysis, which I quite enjoy listening to. Bear with me here, takes a bit of explaining! I mentioned the other day about how I felt we needed to make a few adjustments to our system and be a little more attacking against sides like Hull (those who we will be fighting to stay up against). I think MNF tonight explained it well - analysing both our system and Man Utd's. Here is our rough line-up from the weekend: ------------------------GREEN----------------------- ------CAULKER-----FERDINAND---DUNNE--------- SIMPSON-----------------------------------TRAORE ----------------BARTON--FAURLIN---------------- --------------------MUTCH------------------------- ---------------REMY------AUSTIN------------------- Perhaps Mutch was slightly further forwards than Barton and Faurlin, but thats the idea. MNF showed a clip from Ajax under Van Gaal when they won the Champions League, with a midfield forming a diamond like shape (using those who started for us on Saturday): ------------------------GREEN----------------------- ------CAULKER-----FERDINAND---DUNNE--------- ------------------------BARTON--------------------- --------------MUTCH-----------FAURLIN------------ SIMPSON-------------REMY---------------TRAORE -----------------------AUSTIN---------------------- Now for me that makes a bit more sense for us. Rather than play with wing-backs who have to get up and down the whole pitch, they stay a little further forwards, bit more like wingers do - then the players in the position of Mutch/Faurlin do the running into the space behind them when required. For me, against the lesser sides this is the way to go as it offers more going forwards. It also allows us to get our wingers into the side on occasions. ---------- Another point Neville made was about Dunne being right footed on the left of the three centre backs. If we are going to play Dunne rather than Onuoha, then surely it makes more sense for Hill to be there as he is left footed.
I watched it Judo and yes rather than have the wingback system they showed a system where the LM and RM cover the space on the wing. They also mentioned one of the other ways is to have specialised wingbacks such as Juventus and that Isla was a quality player in this position.
I debated whether to start the thread or not - it is certainly something I think will help us, but explaining it is pretty hard. I think it was perhaps something that if you watched them talk about it, it made sense, unlike my rabble above!
This. I mentioned on another thread the fact that Simpson doesn't have the attacking capabilities and Traore doesn't have the defensive capabilities to make the system work effectively. We're trying to fit square pegs into round holes at the moment and we'll suffer if we don't get it right. Tony Cascarino mentioned on Talksport how he loved playing against a 3 man backline as it was easy to find space and if there was any weakness in that system it could be exploited so easily. You have to have players who are comfortable on the ball and read the game well, we don't have that in all the defensive positions...
Interesting that Judo. Isla should be ideal for either variation. Re Neville's point I'd really like to see Traore tried in the left CB role. I think it should be his best position, he is better starting at the back than further forward.
On paper, 3-5-2 looks great, I really hope Harry and his three wise (?) men can make it work for us. Done correctly, it's a dynamic system that allows teams to adapt to attack and defence with width and a solid midfield. Done badly, an out of position midfielder or two can lead to an exposed back three and plenty of space for the other team. It's in vogue at the moment as a few teams used it at the World Cup, after 2010 4-5-1 was all the rage - coaches have realised that 3-5-2 is a great way to pressurise that formation. How long before good old fashioned 4-4-2 comes back in to fashion? I give it a couple of World Cups..
As others have already said in one fashion or another, if you have quality players then the system is somewhat secondary. In fact, top teams can adjust and adapt as the game progresses. I have always had a bit of an issue with wingbacks in that you rarely get one with both the defensive and attacking attributes required in the role. As Soops has already said, arguably Simpson falls short on attacking and Traore on defending, which makes the systems a bit lopsided and vulnerable. I can see where Judo is coming from in his formation that pushed Simpson and Traore further forward against lesser opposition, but it would make me nervous. I'd rather have Hoilett or Phillips playing just behind the strikers, sacrificing one of the centre-backs, but this moves away from the formation Redknapp wants to play. But this takes us back to the point that the top teams adapt as necessary, and we have the players to be able to do this.
I think Traore strengths lie in him going forward and i thought he is very lacking in defence. I would love to see Yun given a go
Traore lost concentration before, but I think he is much improved in this and defends well now, strong tackler intercepts well and is great in the air. As you say he is good getting forward and crossing, but from defensive positions where there is space and his poor close ball control isn't as big a problem as congested midfield areas including out wide.
Very interesting analyses and discussions in the video. Thanks for posting it. I admit that I have learned a lot about this formation in the last months as it was a set up that I did not fully understand. I thought that our previous 4-2-3-1 system was "modern" and the way forward, but the 3-5-2 wingback option is very interesting formation when played well, and a great option for us in the Premiership. I liked what I saw last Saturday and that was still work in progress. If we could have a robust defence and efficiently break at speed on the counter attack then I will be very pleased. I am also very pleased that we have Glen Hoddle as a coach and will eagerly observe how out tactics develop in the next matches. All very good and promising, but we cannot afford a long gelling process as we need to get points, or more importantly wins. I am looking forward to the Spurs match as this system could be even more effective when played away.
I really enjoyed the discussion. Carragher went up in my estimations with his understanding of the system. Neville, who I have always found to be very knowledgeable went down in my estimations as he seemed to think that all British players wouldn't be able to adapt to this kind of flexible system........that's what's been wrong with most British coaches for decades! Carragher was spot on; in that most systems morph into each other as the game shape changes. I've always been a big fan of more flexible formations such as the 4-2-3-1 that we employed when we won the Championship.In that side, the front 4 all interchanged positions, along with Taarabt having a virtually free role. It is true though that the most important thing is good players, although even if players are limited in ability, they can still be drilled into a very effective way of playing as Brian Clough's sides used to do. IMO Isla, with his understanding and experience of playing the wing back role will add a lot to the stability of our formation and hopefully Traore will learn a lot from him. I tend to agree that if Ned is to be left out then why not play Hill on the left as there's not a lot between him and Dunne imo.
I enjoyed that. Its great to see analysts not afraid to disagree with one another and have an actual debate. That's what football analysis is all about. These two are the first British commentators I've seen that regularly have proper debates with one another and its long overdue. Its extraordinary that its taken so long. The dirge that's been served up pre and post match up to this point, especially the MOTD crew, has been truly awful. I can't watch MOTD anymore because the sight of Linekar and Shearer giggling with one another while giving a commentary no more insightful than a what 9 year old could manage, makes me feel physically nauseous. An honorable mention must go to Robbie Savage who was the first one (I can think of) to call it how he sees it but he was quickly dispatched when it became too obvious how uncomfortable Alan Hansen was with someone who challenged him.
Not seen the video, will do when I get home. My two pence which they probably blow out the water is all formations and all set up can be played differently a lot will depend on the instructions they are given for a specific game. For example you can have the CB's hold a high line squashing the midfield, tell the wing back to contest in Midfield, or fall back to FB position when we don't have the ball, a DM to fit into the back 4 leaving the WB totally aggressive etc etc etc For me it's important to have the players fit the roll, ie if WB were going to be mainly aggressive put Matty or JNR, agreed that it looks like we don't have players who can players both rolls but maybe Isla and Yun could, which enables to be more flexible within the game.
It's a good OP Judo and makes perfect sense. One thing that has struck me is that everyone said Ferdinand would make a great sweeper and Man U get rid of him just at the stage where he'd be nearest to being in that role. I like a packed midfield but agree that the furthest back of those need to be switched on enough to cover the wide men if they get stranded forward. I actually think that those we have got from last year showed that they could do this so as long as the new buys don't compromise this, I can see it working out pretty well.
