I posted a thread sunday moring calling stoke a big test and i'm afraid we got a D- at best. Stoke were awful, fouling, 9 men behind the ball, cynical stuff.. long ball towards crouch all day... Lee Mason was the usual kind of english ref, don't for the love of god do anything until the second half so you don't have to send someone off... and us? We we were everything i was thinking we would be. the highlights of what occurred would be: Sahin had a shocker, he was asleep most of the first half. Sterling was found out in that he was so easy to just take the ball off, he needs to learn from it. Suso could last the game but it should have been sterling that came off, he did well but needs to work on fitness. Gerrard is so slow to react and get to the pitch fo the play, things are consistently breaking down around him we'd no forward threat at all Huth should have been dealty with long before his cynical professional foul, had he been carded befre that he wouldn't have tried that on. skertl has no faith in the passing game and kept eitherkicking it away or passing it back to reina we'd no clue how to break this lot down, rodgers said penetration... well his team is totally lacking, if sides don't come out and press thier midfields up he's got no answer. All in all we were comfortable but i thought henderson should have been on for sahin at half time and sterling should have been hauled off after 60mins cos stoke just had his number and the ref wasn't about to whistle anything bar for a stoke free... a bit dissappointed in the subs and the general level of urgency and passing.. the guys just didn't look on it really. Stoke sat back and let us tap it about but we were even sloppy in that.
Good point about Skrtel. Also Reina is well renowned for being a 'sweeper' like keeper, but lately his distribution has been poor, I'm not sure if he has no choice because players aren't showing for the ball or it's purely because his confidence is low right now, but I think we all shouldn't underestimate how important that clean sheet yesterday could prove to be.
You forgot to mention Reinas heart attack balls out from the back as well which are getting as easy to read as a piece of paper with the words "Jesus Christ" written on
look on reina, he only has allen showing for it cos gerrar dis too lazy to track back or show most of the time and sahin for whatever reason yesterday was either asleep or just wnating to play 20 yars up the field.. On one occasion reian went mad and if you look at the footgae you can clearly see all three mdifielders with thier back to him. this is about philosophy... rodgers is telling reina to do it... thats key point 1. point two is the actual movement for the ball and then what the player does with it. skertl truns his back on it or wants it back to the keeper, agger wants to stride forward, allen is making some bad deicsions but he's trying very hard to be available. I have to think that some people need a good kicking up the backside shortly. Gerrard is one as his general work rate and sloppy play... not being switched on and expect the ball.... skertl is another, shain is a third. when lucas is back i think he and allen will be quite good in the role expected.... but roll on january cos we desperately need a genuine forward... let suzrez roam by all means but when the side starts thumping aimless crosses or long balls you know it aint working. Finally young sterling me lad... you cost us 2 points by not squaring a ball and shooting instead.. learn from.. i would have had you off the pitch me lad long before. good player but has a to to learn.
Pretty much agree with everything MITO Felt sorry for Reina at times - he's looking for a pass but Allen was the only making the effort. Was really disappointed in Sahin - he is a quality player and we saw the best of him against WBA and Norwich. He is the one who should be running this midfield. For such a small guy, Sterling does show a lot of fight but Stoke are renowned for their physicality so it was always going to be a struggle. But he did well but just lacked that final cutting edge. Poor decisions in the final 3rd cost us - you already mentioned the chance that Sterling should have squared but I remember when Luis picked up the ball, ran with it and Sterling had acres of space to run into but Luis decided to square it to Gerrard and it ruined the attack. I must have mentioned it numerous times but one more won't hurt - Drop Gerrard, make Sahin the focal point of the midfield. Until Lucas is back, I would play either Henderson or Shelvey. One positive - clean sheet and Reina is looking a lot more solid (made a great save against Udinese and looks more assured now, bar his dodgy passing!).
Ok...point 1 is spot on. Reina has obviously been told to pass it out "at all costs" which is a terribly dangerousway to play "all" the time. Point 2 is wrong though. Gerrard and Sahin are supposed to be our forward midfielders and if they are having to leg it back into their own half "every single time" we pass it back to the keeper then you'd be criticising them for not being up in support of the forwards. In BRs system its the job of the back 4 and deeper midfielder to drop and pick the ball up. The problem is as our last two games have shown that it is piss easy to combat. Simply crowd the centre halfs and Allen and it ends up with some serious flapping around. Its all very well to play this way in certain leagues or at international level where the majority of teams just move back to their own half as soon as the keeper gets the ball but the Prem has never and will never be like that.
The reason why Barcelona are capable of playing this way is because most opponents are scared to commit players up front, therefore the opposition will sit back and just give Barca all the space in that half of the pitch. El Classico shows you that if you press Barca high up, you will force mistakes. Unfortunately, we do not command the same level of respect so we'll find teams constantly pressing us.
I was wondering when he is going to get a rest, we have to protect him physically and give him time to reflect on his game and his role at the club, we should not be playing him in every game. Surely Assiadi should be given time in place of Sterling giving Assiadi experience and Sterling a rest.
billy... ok so here's the thing.. I don't beleive in Forward and defensive midfielders but i can see that shain must be told to go that far forward.... i believe a midfielder should be where the ball is not that far ahead of it. we needed either gerrard or sahin dropping in there.... like a masch and alonso combo... to make more options and also make space. I think them going forward just makes them really easy to mark.. we have almost a 2-3-4-1 type system when attacking... the two cbs are very wide, allen and the two full backs are there at the half way line and the rest are running about like headless chickens or standing marked. We play well when the passing is fast and crsips and guys are moving... if the CMs come back they draw the opposition midfield and when that happens there's space for the pass to take them out of the game... cone that happens it down to 3/4 players max to get at the opposition defense. If you push 5/6 players on they get clogged up and the pass is that much harder... we are looking to draw the opposition midfield out and play a killer pass... but stoke were plaing 8 men back so it didn't occur or when it did huth made cyncial fouls.
I'm not so sure - why play crosses/longs balls against Stoke? It's effectively playing into their hands. The way to beat Stoke is to use pace and guile. We tried to do that but it didn't come off this time - it happens. Then Gerrard was intent on playing ambitious balls and we then lost possession.
No no no. You simply can't play pace and guile against a team who plays that deep. Look at the best team that traditionally struggles year in year out against Stoke. Arsenal. Hardly a team that ever lacks guile and pace. Now look at a top team that traditionally twats them relentlessly. Chelsea. They do it by matching them physically and then the extra skill level shows through.
Sorry Mito but you just can't ever "draw" out the players of a team like Stoke. They are drilled and drilled and drilled NOT to be drawn out. Gerrard and Sahin could have waved wads of £50 notes at them saying "here Stokie Stokie" and they still wouldn't budge from the edge of their own box
This may be a bit rambling as they're just my thoughts and I don't have all the answers. Like the bloody economy there's no quick fix irrespective of the strategy that we employ. So I'll start on first point. I'm sick and tired of all of this slagging-off of Gerrard as lazy and wasteful. FFS you just can't expect him to play a defensive role and be a prime creative player at the same time. Sure some of his passes don't make their intended target but the majority of those are in tightly packed areas of the pitch where the chances of success are far slimmer. Sahin was useless against Stoke. To be fair to the lad, I doubt that he has seen such 'rugged' defence too many times in his career. Just can't agree with JS about making him the midfield general as he's not shown the skill or willingnes to take on that role. Suso/Sterling. both of them have shown potential but they are kids and still learning - irrespective of their own opinions of their skills and abilities. I have to agree that they should both have been subbed much earlier when it was clear that they were suffering. If we are to continue playing out from the back then Skertl has to take a leaf out of Agger's book and take the ball forward purposefully into our opponents half. Now a system is just that - a system. It's only as good as its end results. At the moment that end result appears to be possession statistics rather than goals and points. We can debate all day as to why we have ended up with no recognised striker. We have to live with that until at least January but we do have to give both Borini and Morgan the chance to fill the gap. Kids. Our kids have shown great potential but we have to remember that they are that - kids! Let's not go too overboard and expect them to put in brilliant performances week in and week out. I seriously don't want us to have a group of Wiltshires on our hands!
I said mandy, as in player type, because we needed a target. We have noone to aim for in the box, we don't hardly score from set pieces or an early ball into the box, lethargic counter attack. Stoke were just not going to let Sterling and Johnson get behind them by pushing up and were never going to get drawn out unless we literally pretended to be ****ting ourselves. We needed something in the middle of the stoke defense to aim at and feed off, a plan b. In the end, we expected this from Stoke. We had no other option as far as a bridgehead in their area, so with no penetration, noone ot aim for, how on fckuing earth were we gonna score. At the very least someone like Mandy draws defenders to him on set pieces at the very least. We had Crouch for same and he did well enough. Are we the lowest team in the prem in terms of goals from set pieces?
Agree about sterling sitting this one out, I'm all for letting the youngsters have their chance and when they are good enough (which sterling is) playing them regularly, but the kid is 17 and shouldnt be playing 90 minutes of every PL game. Can't wait for Lucas to come back, him and allen will form a good understanding/partnership I think, and then one of either sahin or Gerrard playing in front of them should work well
I have seen him play for Dortmund and he played a key part in their 'uprising'. Then we started to see his quality come through against WBA and Norwich - it was evident he is the type of play who demands the ball. Always looking for space, can pass, control and find his man. We saw his clever runs in the box and his ability to be on the end of chances. Agreed that it wasn't best game against Stoke but he is probably our best midfielder in terms of quality.
