The following picture was taken in a football stadium I believe on Tuesday night this week. That place is the Georgios Karaiskakis Stadium in Greece, which on doing some research was renovated to its current modern structure in 2004. The picture was tweeted by none other than BBC, I see acceptance of tweeting such a picture as an indication of giving football supporters across the UK a taste of the atmosphere within the ground. So my dilemma, why is this widely acceptable abroad but seen as a criminal offence or at the very least worthy of a banning order in this country? please log in to view this image ps. I don't watch Champions League but I assume this was against an English football team, none other than Manchester United. Oh the Irony.
It is the culture, whilst in Europe fans can be trusted with such things like flairs, in England such a thing would most probably be used as a missle and flung into the opposing fans with the aim to hurt as many people as possible.
Have you ever witnessed them used as missiles in the UK, apart from the one incident I think at Tottenham was it...well highlighted and replayed to death over and over again on TV. Or is this Daily Malice propaganda we are talking? I stated I assumed they were playing an English team, with English supporters, so does that with your reasoning make that ground suddenly an unsafe place? I think the problem is in the UK everyone has become so wrapped up in cotton wool we believe everything is unsafe but would quite happily step into a Stadium abroad where we open up our brains again.
No I can't say I have even seen a flair at a ground being used, but I have seen many other things, coins, bottles, lighters, even ripped up chairs etc. thrown at opposing fans, players and officals because a throw on was given against thier team. Football in Britain is terrotorial, whilst most fans are law abiding there is an element who seek out carnage, and as long as that element are still in ciriculation then I don't think you should allow potentially dangerous objects like flairs or knives into football grounds
From little acorns mighty oak do grow, ok it was only lights on mobile phones at Priestfield but it was a start
I'm sorry but I fail to see how creating an atmos"fear" of intimidation is a good thing? This is not modern but going back to some very bad dark days where violence was seen as the best way to support your club. I much prefer being able to take my son with the reduced concern that there are going to be over hyped idiots threatening anyone that moves.
I think you will find football is a lot more territorial in other countries than here. I don't want to highlight incidents through the fear of upsetting English fans but that reasoning appears quite weak to me. I suppose one example I could give is the old Yugoslavia, was there not extreme rivalry before the civil war broke out? You use examples such as coins, but coins are taken into football grounds at every game throughout the UK on match days. Do you ban coins as well?...lighters, I've always got a lighter on me. I used to drive on M25 everyday is that dangerous?...I can honestly and truthfully say I found driving on the M25 a damn sight more dangerous then any football experience I've ever had. Exactly as grumpygit as pointed out, our atmosphere now comes at the end of a light on a mobile phone...how sad is that! Gemini talks about the fear of intimidation, all propaganda in my eyes bred by the English media. Let me give you all an example and its a topic that is starting to get highlighted by many supporters across the country. After Hillsborough safety became the priority but only if supporters get the blame imo. Many supporters will be attending Premier League football matches this weekend, how many of them will be standing in 100's if not 1,000's to get through the turnstiles...at one particular ground recently, only four turnstiles were open. Supporters were standing in cramped over crowded conditions with little crowd control from the authorities. No lessons have been learned unless it is the easier option of blaming the supporters and restricting there behaviour such even removing a lid of a coke bottle Must admit on a lighthearted note this made me laugh...
I speak from experience having been beaten up after a match just for walking along with my gills scarf slightly visible. It was ripped out of my coat, I was strangled with it kicked, punched and spat at repeatedly. I was only 19 at the the time and had we not been playing Wigan at Wembley in the play off final but instead the other team I would not have gone. Without a shadow of a doubt. Football is not worth that.
brb, you clearly have a more faith in the "Great" British public than I do, there are a (thankfully) small minority of fan who are willing to punch someone else in the face just because they happen to support another team within close geographical proximity to them. Why oh why would you give these people a potentially life threatening object in a confined space. Giving some football fans a flair is equivilent to given a paricularly dim-witted chimp a loaded gun (although that is a bit unfair on the dim-witted chimp). These people are of the mindset where they are willing to throw their own money at opposing fans in order to try and hurt them, why would you give them anything heavier to throw? Gemini unfortunately makes my point, he was set upon just because he was wearing a blue scarf, imagine what unpleasent thing could be done if fans wee regualrly carrying flairs?!
That's not nice Gemini and no supporter should have to experience that. All i ask though is surely pyrotechnics cannot be blamed for those bad memories. You may argue that those flares entice a certain calibre of person...i can only defend that by saying what like me? And does the banning of pyrotechnics ban the sort of people you experienced on the day you was attacked, not at all i believe. We play Bradford in a few weeks time away. I remember last time we played Bradford i got in a few tweets of exchange with their local MP, over behaviour. So do we ban all supporters travelling this time, because of the accusations then? I think alwaysright in his jest hit the nail on the head for me with the smoking ban...the rules know no bounds and its only going to be a matter of a decade that people get dragged out of the crowd for chanting. Don't be silly I hear you say...well the BBC have already deemed that certain matches may have to be broadcast after the watershed. Football is dying in the UK because of continued media propaganda and government interfering at all levels, all i ask is give us back our game without all the rules and deal with the real issues such as highlighted by Gemini's experience and i will gladly support them.
BSG You make very good points - but then I can understand what brb is trying to say. We do seem to have a 'nanny' state - just because the stupid actions of a small minority. Rules are supposed to protect the majority of our society. What normally happens is that the greater majority probably do not need to have exact rules to behave in a reasonable manner - because the majority would be 'naturally' law abiding AND at the same time the minority who have no intention to abide with any regulation continue to transgress (almost) at will. Society then seeks to justify rules by becoming 'jobsworthy' against the basically law abiding majority (season ticket holders t&c ?)- instead of concentrating on the real trouble makers - that is why it is easier to take off the top of a cola bottle than to target anyone intent on causing trouble. Sledgehammer tactics are adopted these days - for fear of litigation if a club does not prevent me from throwing my cola top inside the crowd ( I'm not sure what damage a cola bottle top can cause ) - but then why are some fans allowed to continue to stand ? - again because society cannot target the real problems. Statistics get created to show a 99% success rate in the implementation & acceptance of the rules - when NOTHING seems to be done to touch the 1% ........ There I was at Burton a couple of seasons ago. It was half time. I was sitting at the back of the stand quietly drinking from a can of Pepsi. A steward came up to me and asked me to hand over the can - on the grounds that they were prohibited inside the ground. I didn't cause a scene. I said "OK, I didn't know ." I finished my drink and gave the can to the steward - I had broken the rules - but had I really done anything wrong ( apart from being one of the 99% )
It's like saying "guns don't kill people" isn't it. No pyrotechnics are not responsible for for what idiots may do with them. A coin isn't responsible for being thrown. Have you ever acted impulsively? Did something not because you are a bad person or want to do something bad but because it just happens? You not thought for that split second? And something has happened that you regret? And are deeply sorry for. It doesn't even have to be that. It could be totally accidental. Imagine that you are standing, cheering on the Gills, flare in hand, Gills score your hand goes up and you catch the guy behind you in the face with it because at that time there is a surge forward...... Massive burns to his face, he loses sight in his eye. How would you feel? Would that make flares seem worth while? But I don't see how being allowed to bring flares into stadiums can improve the atmosphere. It may add to it but it will it guarentee what you want? 100%? I doubt it. Unfortunately there are people out there that will use anything as an excuse for violence whether it be football, religion, alcohol or whatever. Also accidents happen.
Trouble is Gemini every time i turn a key in my car I could be leading to a life of regret or death, but i still drive that dangerous weapon, that can maim or kill. How many people have died on the road, just today? As for the gun debate, just ask Piers Morgan on that one, he no longer has a job in the US because he tried to apply UK thoughts.
I know exactly what you're saying brb and in some ways I agree. Let's take that view a step further and ask if you think that you should be allowed to drink and drive?
I believe people should be allowed to do what they want without hindrance within the restraints of current British laws. Yes, a politicians answer but the best your probably get.
So if someone wants to abuse children they should be allowed? Laws and rules are there to protect people, usually the most vulnerable.
But we have restrictions on driving brb, you need a licence, we have speed limits, selt belts, drink drive laws he list goes on. But any dimwit football fan can get a flair, without any training etc
