MIA David Fox
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I agree that chelsea accepted that they weren't the best team, but they won, so their tactic worked. My point about exciting was more in the cut and thrust of the PL. Barce are undoubtedly one of (if not the) most talented teams in the world so admitting that your not going to out skill them is important, also remember that chelsea also finished 6th, so with the right tactics the 6th best team in the PL won the champions league, not bad for a league playing failing and archaic style of football.
I don't think Chelsea can be said to have played "the English way" against either Barca or Bayern. As carrabuh says, they simply did what gave them the best (or only) chance of winning -- much as teams often do when they go to the Emirates. They defend in numbers and hope to get a goal on a quick counter-attack when they have frustrated the more positive team into pushing too many players forward. The "English" way is more a case of wide-open, we attack then you attack, fast and furious ding-dong. We've seen less and less of this with the arrival of foreign managers, but it still colours the mental approach of our teams to a certain extent and is certainly what the majority of fans hanker after: fast, raw and physical.
With Barca/Spain having very much dominated for a few years now, there are signs that things are moving beyond them -- as always happens. People work out how to play against that particular style -- as Mourinho has sussed out this year at Real. However, there is one factor that hasn't changed enough in our game, and that is technique. Virtually every non-British team or country you watch can outdo us in technique -- even simple passing accuracy. As redruth and other have been saying, we have been behind in that respect for many years, and it will take another generation before it is going to significantly improve -- if indeed it ever does!
[EDIT] By "us" of course I mean English players, whether for team or country. The foreign players in the Premier League generally do have far better technique, and in my opinion, generally have better understanding of the game. Too many of our modern players seem to wait to be told from the touchline what they should be doing. Where have our Bobby Moores gone?
With Barca/Spain having very much dominated for a few years now, there are signs that things are moving beyond them -- as always happens. People work out how to play against that particular style -- as Mourinho has sussed out this year at Real. However, there is one factor that hasn't changed enough in our game, and that is technique. Virtually every non-British team or country you watch can outdo us in technique -- even simple passing accuracy. As redruth and other have been saying, we have been behind in that respect for many years, and it will take another generation before it is going to significantly improve -- if indeed it ever does!
[EDIT] By "us" of course I mean English players, whether for team or country. The foreign players in the Premier League generally do have far better technique, and in my opinion, generally have better understanding of the game. Too many of our modern players seem to wait to be told from the touchline what they should be doing. Where have our Bobby Moores gone?
This issue about what the fans want rings true, they are as much to blame as the coaches for English players lack of technique and patience.
We can't really complain when they can't do the things we don't ask for during the regular season because we find it boring to watch (not me I hasten to add)
We can't really complain when they can't do the things we don't ask for during the regular season because we find it boring to watch (not me I hasten to add)
as one of our more positive posters, i find that comment a little hard to take. i only moan at you...
meanwhile, great post by robbie
Fairly high opinion of yourself there Superman, the rest of us are negative are we just because we have a different view from yours?
Note the
at the end of my post? Chill a bit! ILD OTBC
I don't see why we can't play our style of British football with skill though. We do like to get the ball forward early and I like that style. But that means good movement from the players ahead of the player with the ball and the player with the ball passing it accurately and in the right place. Controlling the ball with your foot is easier than your chest or head. We ought to be able to achieve that reasonably quickly, say 10 years.
One of the problems I see is defenders. Watching GB at the Olympics, all three players who have appeared as centre backs have been caught flat footed and woefully lacking in pace and acceleration. And what has our criticsm of City been mainly about? Our inability to defend well and players like Ward being cumbersome. However, aginst Ajax, both CB's looked comfortable when they weren't having to chase or jump with strikers all the time. Ajax's lack of a strike partnership gave them time to talk to each other and they both showed great composure on the ball at times.
But we still insist that CB's must be minimum 6ft 3inches and have a good kick on them. Mobility is more a priority than strength IMO and with that mobility would come time and then the ability to pass rather than launch. However I see this taking decades to change.
One of the problems I see is defenders. Watching GB at the Olympics, all three players who have appeared as centre backs have been caught flat footed and woefully lacking in pace and acceleration. And what has our criticsm of City been mainly about? Our inability to defend well and players like Ward being cumbersome. However, aginst Ajax, both CB's looked comfortable when they weren't having to chase or jump with strikers all the time. Ajax's lack of a strike partnership gave them time to talk to each other and they both showed great composure on the ball at times.
But we still insist that CB's must be minimum 6ft 3inches and have a good kick on them. Mobility is more a priority than strength IMO and with that mobility would come time and then the ability to pass rather than launch. However I see this taking decades to change.
Can't agree with your thinking on this regarding the fans, the applause that rings round the ground for a good sustained passing or possession spell disproves that theory. The silence and moaning for a lump up field into no mans land also shows the fans want to see better than that!
ILD OTBC
Fairly high opinion of yourself there Superman, the rest of us are negative are we just because we have a different view from yours?
Note the
ILD OTBC
how have i got a high opinion of myself by suggesting i'm one of the more positive posters?! what does that even mean? i'm not sure if you're trying to be clever or funny or both but its not really working for you
Yes indeed girls, put those handbags down and dance round them!
It's not like you two to fall out!
The theme running through this thread reminds me of Alan Durban's infamous quote "If you want entertainment go and watch a bunch of clowns". Whilst all fans want to be entertained we also prioritise results. Whilst not wishing to go too far down the road of negativety if we are playing a better team there will be occasions when we will have to shut up shop and play hoof ball.
I hear alot more applause and appreciation for a big tackle and running full throttle after a ball into space.
I also find quite the opposite when we pass the ball across the back with impatient moans to get it forward. Nothing causes a groan at Carrow Rd more than possesion based passes going astray, it drives them nuts.
Carrow Rd (mostly) does not like possesion football, they like an obvious attacking purpose in what we do. Last season I saw some beautiful little passes by our defence to get out of trouble which got absolutely no appreciation from the crowd because they were to busy screaming for the ball to be cleared.
I also find quite the opposite when we pass the ball across the back with impatient moans to get it forward. Nothing causes a groan at Carrow Rd more than possesion based passes going astray, it drives them nuts.
Carrow Rd (mostly) does not like possesion football, they like an obvious attacking purpose in what we do. Last season I saw some beautiful little passes by our defence to get out of trouble which got absolutely no appreciation from the crowd because they were to busy screaming for the ball to be cleared.
If I were asked for an example of a side playing good, skillful "British" football with a certain amount of success I would suggest the Newcastle side under Kevin Keegan. But when they came up against more sophisticated teams playing good skillful football in "their" non-British styles, they were outplayed. And look what happened when Keegan managed England.
Re. English fans applauding bouts of passing, mostly it is enjoying seeing opposing teams running around fruitlessly trying to win back the ball. That's when the "Oles" ring out. The fans love that when their team is in front and the losers are being given the run around. But if their team is behind and they are simply keeping possession, you can be sure there will soon be shouts of "Get it forward" etc.
Re. English fans applauding bouts of passing, mostly it is enjoying seeing opposing teams running around fruitlessly trying to win back the ball. That's when the "Oles" ring out. The fans love that when their team is in front and the losers are being given the run around. But if their team is behind and they are simply keeping possession, you can be sure there will soon be shouts of "Get it forward" etc.
"Re. English fans applauding bouts of passing, mostly it is enjoying seeing opposing teams running around fruitlessly trying to win back the ball. That's when the "Oles" ring out. The fans love that when their team is in front and the losers are being given the run around. But if their team is behind and they are simply keeping possession, you can be sure there will soon be shouts of "Get it forward" etc. "
This is a great point and shows the limitations in the British game based more on percentages than a skill set. Create more chances = more goals, not the Spanish method of create better chances = more goals.
British crowds love a trier, you shouldn't pick and choose your moments to chase and harass, you should do it all the time regardless, total codswallop. If you don't, your lazy and not playing for the shirt, which are accusations thrown at the likes of Morison and C Martin (totally unfounded).
This is a great point and shows the limitations in the British game based more on percentages than a skill set. Create more chances = more goals, not the Spanish method of create better chances = more goals.
British crowds love a trier, you shouldn't pick and choose your moments to chase and harass, you should do it all the time regardless, total codswallop. If you don't, your lazy and not playing for the shirt, which are accusations thrown at the likes of Morison and C Martin (totally unfounded).
how have i got a high opinion of myself by suggesting i'm one of the more positive posters?! what does that even mean? i'm not sure if you're trying to be clever or funny or both but its not really working for you
Not trying to be anything, just responding to your post, it's allowed apparently, and also it doesn't say anywhere that I have to agree with you!
Anyway no offence intended!
ILD OTBC
ILD OTBC
Hold on guys, this is too embarrassing: apparently I've made a "great post" (Superman) and a "great point" (carrabuh) on this one thread. Usually when I post it kills the thread!
this is a terrible post
this is a terrible post
That's more like it. I feel much better!
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