1. Log in now to remove adverts - no adverts at all to registered members!

Postecoglou & Lange (& Paratici) Watch

Discussion in 'Tottenham Hotspur' started by Dier Hard, Apr 19, 2021.

?

Next gaffer, who's your preference?

  1. Arne Slot

  2. Ruben Amorim

  3. Luis Enrique

  4. Ange Postocoglou

  5. Brendan Rodgers

  6. Graham Potter

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. PowerSpurs

    PowerSpurs Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2011
    Messages:
    11,640
    Likes Received:
    4,892
    The FFP rules forbid doing it that way round!
    At least you understand that trophies increase profits which make the usual criticisms of ENIC ridiculous.
    The facts are that we've improved immensely under ENIC despite our starting financial advantages against the other big clubs but have come up just short a few times.
     
    #601
  2. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2011
    Messages:
    63,615
    Likes Received:
    28,260
    A couple of years ago I asked one of the Lunatic Fringe who exactly fits the bill for their dream, non-ENIC owners who will take us forward. And what did I get? Some mealy-mouthed nothingness about how the club would appeal to any American investors

    Really? American owners are the dream? Why?

    In the last decade of so, American owners in the Premier League fall into three very distinct categories

    1.) Plow money into their investment (Liverpool)
    2.) Treat the club as their own personal ATM where any success is coincidental (Man Utd, Woolwich Cuckoos)
    3.) Get bored after a couple of years with no trophies so don't bother investing anymore and the club stagnate (Villa, Swansea, Sunderland)

    And let's not forget, although apparently we're supposed to, American owners were the ones who were all for the ESL, so acting as if they would have the club's interests at heart is wilfully ignorant
     
    #602
    crackerman jack and PowerSpurs like this.
  3. PowerSpurs

    PowerSpurs Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2011
    Messages:
    11,640
    Likes Received:
    4,892
    If you think Joe Lewis is anywhere near the same as Abramovitch there isn't much point debating further.
     
    #603
    PleaseNotPoll likes this.
  4. Lovearsenalcock

    Lovearsenalcock Homeboy
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2011
    Messages:
    72,219
    Likes Received:
    84,795
    Trophies do equal more income but we at Spurs also know Levy does not possess the required minerals to speculate in order to accumulate.

    Other owners do...Levy wants guarantees, he’s in the wrong business and he’s twisted the nature and purpose of a football club because he’s in the wrong business. It worries me that this bloke claims to have been a ST holder in the terraces..what was he watching, what was he loving?
    and tbh anyone would have improved us to some extent or another since the bar was extremely low in the year 2000. However 21 years on we have one measly trophy to celebrate and I am one of them fans who refuses to forget the real aim of this game.
     
    #604
    KingHotspur and Billy The Spur like this.
  5. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2011
    Messages:
    63,615
    Likes Received:
    28,260
    The thing is, they don't: league position and European qualification equal income

    A team who finishes third in the Premier League who go nowhere in the domestic cups will receive far more income than a team who finishes seventh and wins the FA Cup all thanks to the combination of Sky's prize money for the league and the G14 turning the Champions League into a slush fund that would give them a perpetual financial advantage over their rivals twenty years ago, and both have been remarkably blatant for some time

    The latter in particular is an issue, because when ENIC took over all that was needed was for one of Man Utd, Arsenal or Liverpool to have a bad season and it was possible to sneak into the Champions League under their noses (which is exactly what Leeds did and Everton would have done if UEFA didn't **** them over) but the goalposts got moved not just down the pitch but into a different stadium when Russian and Emirati money meant there were some very sharp elbows barging their way to the trough which have already changed the top table as Arsenal have been unceremoniously removed from it but also reframes the entirety of European football, which can best be demonstrated by pointing out G14 members PSG, Lyon, Marseille, Ajax, PSV and Porto weren't invited to the ESL as their leagues have been made borderline irrelevant in the past twenty years
     
    #605
  6. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    92,527
    Likes Received:
    52,186
    Tax evasion might be a bit **** morally, but it's not illegal.
    It really doesn't compare with the horrendous crimes of his peers in the Premier League, either.
    Dictators and their chums, responsible for the deaths of thousands and the theft of billions.
     
    #606
    BrunelGunner likes this.
  7. PowerSpurs

    PowerSpurs Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2011
    Messages:
    11,640
    Likes Received:
    4,892
    Levy has bet the house on the stadium because it really is the best way of ensuring future success. The last ten years have generally seen the best football Spurs have played since the 60s. We've got to more finals than under any other owner since the 60s too but lost them to clubs with much more money than us. Every other club has done worse.
     
    #607
  8. remembercolinlee

    remembercolinlee Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2012
    Messages:
    33,481
    Likes Received:
    36,866
    In the 1960s we made 4 finals + title win
    In the 1970s we made 4 finals
    In the 1980s we made 5 finals
    In the 1990s we made 2 finals
    In the 00s we made 3 finals
    In the 10s we made 2 finals
    In the 21s we've made 1 finals

    The best decade since the 1960s was the 80s tbf.
    5 finals, a European trophy, 2 FA Cups, some great players and excellent football.

    I don't judge us by the trophies we do or don't win but equally I won't dismiss some great times we had as a club.

    Think this debate is way too polarised on both sides personally.

    Like I said before, if we were playing good football I would be disappointed with not winning but happy with the club.
    That is my issue...an I see nothing changing on the pitch while Levy chooses the manager.

    He has a record of making short sighted managerial decisions to chase a trophy which has led us to Santini, Ramos, AVB and Jose...he has then caused an issue by employing long term care takers such as Pleat and Sherwood (and to a less extent Mason) but everytime we have a project he has become impatient and not trusted the manager. Jol and to a lesser extent Pochettino.

    I have no faith that he will choose the right manager (only Jol, Redknapp and Pochettino have taken us forwards) and if he does get it right I have no faith he will give them time.

    That's why I am against Levy choosing the manager ... and this plus the furlough and ESL decisions are why I am Levy out.
     
    #608
  9. Billy The Spur

    Billy The Spur Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2011
    Messages:
    3,037
    Likes Received:
    1,910
    The stadium will not ensure any kind of success if you are not prepared to spend the fruits of it, ENIC have not, and never will do to the levels required. We`ve played good football and won nothing in the last 10 years. We played good football in large parts of the 80`s and 70`s, and also won things, because we had ambition at the very top. Getting to finals and losing is not success, nobody will remember the runners up. ENIC will not compete with clubs with more money, (even though they have plenty of money but like to plead poverty and give the impression they are skint) the only solution is for these parasites to get on their bike, or people will be having the same debate in 10 years time, having still won nothing.
     
    #609
  10. PowerSpurs

    PowerSpurs Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2011
    Messages:
    11,640
    Likes Received:
    4,892
    Levy has spent every penny we have earned. ENIC have taken nothing out of the club at all. The lack of ambition from the 80s owners is why we were so off the pace when ENIC came in.
    Anyway. Who is this mythical owner who is going to come with hard earned cash and splurge it on the club? Just one plausible name will do.
     
    #610

  11. PowerSpurs

    PowerSpurs Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2011
    Messages:
    11,640
    Likes Received:
    4,892
    I am not trying to denigrate previous teams but winning stuff in the 80s was a lot easier because the money was shared around better. And the players were objectively weaker because 90% of them came from the British Isles. Even our current team would probably beat England.
    I think you are right on Levy being too impatient with managers, especially Pochettino but I don't see other clubs in our position doing better.
     
    #611
  12. Dier Hard

    Dier Hard G'day mate!

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2011
    Messages:
    36,286
    Likes Received:
    41,570
    I've been heavily critical of ENIC lately but your first sentence is simply untrue.

    Since moving into the new ground we spent £150m+ in 19/20 and then a further £60m or so this summer despite the pandemic. Criticise who and how we've spent it by all means - and that's definitely been one of the problems of Tottenham of late - but implying we won't spend it or haven't spent it is incorrect.
     
    #612
  13. remembercolinlee

    remembercolinlee Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2012
    Messages:
    33,481
    Likes Received:
    36,866
    In my opinion it was not easier to win trophies back in the 1970s and 1980s.

    The pitches were worse, sports science was almost non existent, medical treatment for injuries was laughably poor, there were smaller squads so players were not rotated, there were more games, lots of cup replays and players were allowed to kick lumps out of skillful players without punishment.
     
    #613
  14. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2011
    Messages:
    63,615
    Likes Received:
    28,260
    In the 70s and 80s it was far less likely for a club to maintain the status quo by chucking money that other clubs didn't have to maintain their position, which began in earnest during the 90s with Man Utd and has got the glass ceiling has got progressively lower ever since with G14 clubs hogging Champions League cash and owners who don't have to think twice about spending £30m+ on a benchwarming striker which the club who finished a creditable 6th the previous season had made a transfer bid for rocking up to the league
     
    #614
  15. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    92,527
    Likes Received:
    52,186
    I think it's difficult to quantify. Anyone trying to knock the current big spenders off their perch for any significant period of time is on a hiding to nothing.
     
    #615
  16. PowerSpurs

    PowerSpurs Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2011
    Messages:
    11,640
    Likes Received:
    4,892
    All your points are right but they all contribute to minimising the advantage of the better teams. We were objectively the fourth or fifth best team in the 80s based on league position but won three trophies. We were probably third or fourth best in the last decade and didn't win any.
     
    #616
    remembercolinlee likes this.
  17. The RDBD

    The RDBD Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2011
    Messages:
    27,294
    Likes Received:
    13,077
    Unless he knows something you don't.

    In which case by definition he probably should have sat his
    arse on his typing fingers (to avoid having them subsequently
    severed and then stuck up his arse) ...
     
    #617
  18. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    92,527
    Likes Received:
    52,186
    Luis Campos and Christophe Gaultier, anyone?
     
    #618
  19. The RDBD

    The RDBD Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2011
    Messages:
    27,294
    Likes Received:
    13,077
    Untrue.
    Said owner (Scholar) had ambition but executed it with bad
    business decisions (Hummel, property investment) that did
    not remotely relate to on-pitch matters.
     
    #619
  20. Dier Hard

    Dier Hard G'day mate!

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2011
    Messages:
    36,286
    Likes Received:
    41,570
    Certainly wouldn't say no. Though that'd mean booting Hitchen and something tells me that won't be happening... Unfortunately.
     
    #620

Share This Page