it wasn't the actual standing that caused the disaster. It was the lethal fencing. how do you all feel about this? There is a theory that subconsciously we (the footballing world) will pay a 25 year penance (1989 - 2014) before safe standing will be allowed back into our sport. So from 2014 it will be realised.
I personally don't have any qualms around this at all as long as it is managed properly and the fans aren't made to feel like cattle again. I think if anything it helps build up the atmosphere inside the ground and the majority of fans spend most of the game stood up anyway so yeah, why not.
No, it was poor crowd control and a inadequate venue, not to mention non-existent health & safety procedures!
I've always made my feelings on this quite clear. Standing areas don't kill people, never have never will...until they are poorly designed, poorly maintained or poorly policed. Safe standing could be acheived relatively easily and I'd have no problem with it. The worry I do have though is how "safe" these areas will be in a decade or twos time. I only think it should be allowed if rigorous safety checks are carried out regularly and any non compliance means the areas are closed off until rectified. Do I trust the FA to do this? Do I ****. Do I trust the police or local councils to do it? Not a chance. I hope it happens, I hate sitting at the match, I hate the total lack of atmosphere at most modern grounds but I hope if it's done that it's done properly.
Of course, once the Premier League boom ends and the money depreciates, it will be that much harder for some clubs to maintain such areas too.
I utterly agree. It's become sacrosanct to blame Hillsborough on terracing, especially by those who haven't actually read the full report. On its own, it's the equivalent of blaming it on the thousands of fans who got there late (including my father and sister) because of the roadworks and "security checks" emoticon-0183-swear) on the route to the game. With adequate crowd control, and trained professionals who practice contingency plans and communication (unlike weasels like Duckenfield and SYP who wanted the money and authority, but none of the responsibility that goes with it) it could happen. And here's MY suggestion: a national police/security force for control of football and other sporting occasions. Something based on the BT Police, not some privatised, half-arsed G4S nonsense, but a dedicated, fully-trained force (by the police) accountable to local authorities and paid for, primarily, by the Premier League and its sponsors. God knows, the clubs pay the civil police enough as it is now (for them to immediately squirm out of their responsibilities when something goes wrong), and if Sky and BT can afford the zillions they pay now they can funnel some of it into an independent crowd control force. Under no circumstances though would the FA have any say in this force. They're as bent as SYP.
I don't know if it's a good idea or not. The HFSG are against standing ever returning and I can completely understand that point of view. General consensus is it makes watching the game more enjoyable - is this the only pro? Or will standing be cheaper. Also worth a mention that crowd behaviour improved with introduction of seating. We don't want a surge in hooliganism.
I've thought it many times mate. Write as much legislation as you want about health and safety but if/when the game goes out of fashion again and money starts to decline standards have a tendency to slip over time. On the other hand there is the argument that safe standing will bring more vitality to the game here and so prolong its popularity.
I hope it returns, the Germany model has shown how it can work & still be extremely safe. It'll improve atmosphere's within grounds & improve the match going experience for many, who find the current all seaters sterile. It'll also help those who want to sit, but end up having to stand as those in front have stood up!
It's a complicated argument JB with regards to HFSG. Not all are totally against standing but the majority are because they have no faith in the relevant authorities to implement AND maintain these things in a safe way. I can't blame them for that, the plod and the blazer brigade at the FA still run these institutions likes boys clubs. I genuinely think if solid proposals with real control AND accountability were put in place guaranteeing these areas would be as safe (if not safer) then very few would object. However if I'd spent a third of my life battling the very system that was making assurances of "safety" I'd be as damn cynical as they rightly are. On the hooligan aspect I take the view that hooligans can cause havoc in a standing or seated area. A seat is just an extra weapon Of course identification is an issue but everyone in a standing area will know there will be a host of cctv cameras on them. If there is trouble in a standing area the club are forced to convert it back to all seats. That way those who genuinely want to stand and enjoy the match will police the areas themselves.
Don't even think it's standing that's the problem mate, it's extortionate ticket prices! Bar one or two ends, most top clubs today fill their grounds with day trippers and tourists sitting with their iPads and digital cameras looking like they've taken a bath in the kit shop before the game. Safe standing SHOULD have an impact on ticket prices for the better in theory, as you'll be able to fit more supporters, but I think the days of regular brilliant atmosphere have been banished by Sky and high pricing to be honest.
I don't agree with that. All seaters killed the atmosphere due to like minded people who wanted to sing, being scattered around the ground, as opposed to gathering in standing areas on terraces where you knew like minded souls would be stood. The make up of the crowd has changed but there's still enough passionate fans around that will see the return of limited standing have a positive impact.
Standing or seating, prices won't change. A standing area must still have a seat for European competition and therefore the stadium capacity wouldn't change.
Prices have soared since then though, majority of those people were working class and went to football because it was also affordable. I can't see the prices changing dramatically for the better, hope to be wrong though.
