Mac in Pardew Facepalm

Mac seems to be taking us back to basics here which is what I like to see.
No pissing about.

http://www.themag.co.uk/2015/07/ste...ed-under-alan-pardew-at-pre-season-training/?

Steve McClaren looked astonished when put in the picture about what used to happen under Alan Pardew when it came to pre-season training at Newcastle United.

The new United Head Coach was asked whether he thought it was important that as many players as possible returned for training as soon as possible and replied that it was vital that they started working together as soon as possible.

McClaren looking bemused when the interviewer revealed that under Alan Pardew, players returned for pre-season in ‘dribs and drabs’, a group of players at a time over a longer period.

In the interview with the club’s official website, the most amusing interchange happened when the interviewer queried why on the first day of training the players were playing with a ball, revealing that under Alan Pardew it was far longer into pre season before that happened.

Steve McClaren replying with the one-liner…’Well you play football with a ball‘!!!

The new Head Coach is definitely starting to grow on me….

Hopefully we will see a much more professional approach to first team training under Steve McClaren than what appeared to be the case under Alan Pardew and John Carver. Maybe even a bit of practice on set-pieces and trying to attack the opposition?

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Whilst McClaren came across well in the to interview to camera, the fact it was a club production means that of course none of the questions fans want answering, were asked.

Such as why no assistant manager or first team coach has been appointed and how concerned he was at no players signed as yet.

Though in answer to another question, Steve McClaren did inadvertently show how urgent/desperate the situation is, when he mentioned how short this year’s pre-season is and the fact that they only have nine more days of work before the squad head off to America.

The clock is ticking with only five weeks until the season kicks off and Newcastle and McClaren desperate for quality players to be added to the team/squad:

Interviewer – ‘In years gone by the players tended to come back in dribs and drabs, a few groups, today (Wednesday) they were pretty much all back together – why do you think that was important?’

Steve McClaren:

“It is vitally important that we got the majority here, Monday we have the rest of the internationals (back) who have been playing up until mid-June.

“I can’t wait until we have everybody working together. Talking is all well and good but this is why it is important to get them out there and start the work.”

Interviewer – ‘You got the ball out very early for this stage of the (pre) season, compared to what we have seen the past here?’

Steve McClaren:

“Well you play football with a ball!

“It’s vital that we do that and the players enjoy that, I do also.”

9 days work then America:

“It’s a shorter pre season, we have 10 (now 9) days hard work before we go to America.

“So we want to get some structure and some ball work into the players and try to incorporate fitness work and ball work.”

 

Each to their own, think Pardew is very much an 'arm on the shoulder' type of manager, could explain why he starts well (initial feelgood) then tails off (no real substance behind that devilish grin). I prefer McClaren to Pardew, Carver, Allardyce, Hughton, Shearer and Kinnear. Only Keegan ranks above him and that's purely sentimental. He could easily be the best manager of this regime, or indeed a good few before that (Dogleash, Gullit, Roeder).

 

I agree with this, Although McClaren isnt a name that sets the world alight, he has managed england and teams across europe, he probably is a very very good coach, some of his signings may have been hit or miss a middlesborough, but he won them a cup and got them to a final in europe

I like how his come across and i think he intentially had a little in direct swipe at pards to try and help get fans on side.

 

Do you reckon the mag will ever improve? Or get over their Pardew hatred? It really is sad. They are like a bunch of little schoolgirls. Loads of different ways of doing things, it's results you get in line with resources you have that matters. Pardew did well with limited resources, hopefully we will provide mcclaren with better. If we do I'm sure he will get them playing. No good jumping on his back though if he gets handicapped like all the previous managers.

 

I personally think SM is a more strategic coach and this will pay dividends.
Pards seemed to have only one trick up his sleeve if things were going bad... hoy on Obertan.
He stumbled onto the successful 4-3-3 formation by necessity.
With SM I honestly think he'll look at the wider game plan and cover every eventuality.
Typical Terry summed it up when he waxed lyrical about SM's contribution to some of the better Fergie years.

 

I agree, some people are butthurt. Let's be perfectly honest, the group of players Pardew ended up with, that were passed onto Carver, and now left for McLaren... Why the **** would you give them a ball? They aren't going to win matches playing like Barca. They have won matches in the past few years by covering more ground than every other premier league team, by going direct, and that's why we have always struggled breaking teams down when we have to, we don't have the group for that, there's no creativity, there's no ideas, there's no ability to create space... These lads are capable of playing one way, and that way is about as subtle as "take this blow to the back of the head, love, you've pulled" as a chat-up line.

Steve is going to change the shape and style of the team, no question, but without the players capable of playing that way, it's not going to end well. Leicester managed a bid without a manager, yet all we seem to have done is be rejected by all but 1 assistant manager in the game. If Steve starts the season playing passy-passy with the lads currently at his disposal, we will get relegated, no two ways about it.

 

So how bad are we? Let's ignore squad depth (Charnley seems to do this, so why shouldn't we) and say for the So'ton game we're going with a 4-2-3-1 stylee, ok, and it looks like:

Krul

Janmaat, Saylor, Colo, Dummett

Tiote, Colback

Sissoko, De Jong, Cabella

Cisse

Subs: Darlow, Haidara, Lascelles, Abeid, Anita, Aarons, Perez.


Our aspirations are 10th. Is that a bad squad? How much better could/should we expect? Genuine question, you know how I feel about the club, just playing devils advocate (or the role of GCB as it's popularly known).

 

Let's talk about the first team (and ignore Cabella being on the bench and in the first 11... does he have an even ****ter brother somewhere? ).

That team is probably about 7th place material... On football manager. 3 years ago.

Of that team, the following are mid-table (10-12th) standard: Krul, Colback, Tiote. The following players are upper-mid-table (7th-9th) quality: Janmaat (defensive issues), Sissoko (effort/consistency issues).

The rest is past-it (Colo, Saylor, De Jong, Cisse), or worse, never-up-to-it (Cabella), garbage.

* Dummett is decent, but not mid-table starting quality. Would be an ok back-up player. If we could get that pitch on the field with regularity, I reckon we'd be skirting relegation, because half the team is up to it, and half aren't. That's in a perfect world without injuries.

Now let's visit the bench. Darlow? No probs with him as a back-up that will never see the light of day. Haidara? Career potentially ruined by McCuntface, slipping away from the potential he did have. Lascelles? Decent back-up, in the championship.... Now unfortunately because Saylor might aswell be a Paralympian the amount of injuries he gets, and Colo is just gone (mentally and physically), he'd actually be starting next year at the moment.... Scary... Abeid? Showed some promise last year, but like Aarons, was injured for 99.9% of it. Anita is ****ing ****e, let's skip him. And Perez... Like him, good option on the bench, but is probably our best striker at the club, rather than hot/cold and constantly maligned (and ****ing) Cisse.

We need 2 CBs, a striker, a midfielder and a left back if we want to be mid-table next year. If Steve manages 10th with anything less, we should be licking his balls, just like we should have licked Pardews.

Edit: To stay up, 2 CBs would do it. 1 minimum requirement as we milk the last dregs of talent left in the oldies... But we'd need a winger as well in that instance.

 

Exactly. Funnily enough when Pardew had Cabaye, Tiote on form, HBA trying, Demba Ba, Colo on form, Krul on form, Santon playing well, we played some lovely football and got really going. As you rip bits and bobs out, shoot the confidence and don't build, the managers then have to start adapting style to suit the lesser players. It would nice to think we are turning the corner and give the new manager more of a chance. I think he can coach. If you get the fans behind (some early signings would have helped), combine with players and a coach, then who knows. At the very least everyone may enjoy their Saturdays.

 

That is simply not a 10th place squad, neither on quality or depth. The problem you get is people look and say, yeah but he is top 10 quality without looking at what is actually in the top 10. Then you have our defence. We need 2 CBs, a LB, a CF to even begin the discussion about the top 10 being a certainty. Really in an ideal world you'd also get another CF, wide man, a ball player in midfield and cover at right back. We aren't going to sign 8 though! And to be fair I would really expect to without shipping out Willo, Sammy, Haidara, Jonas, Raylor, Gouffran, Riviere, Marveaux. We have a massive issue. Not only do e need loads, we have to make room by selling loads. We have got 2 out on free. If you were Marv, Riviere, Haidara, Gouf would you give him your nice fat contract? Willo will stick it out, Sammy we are actively trying to keep.

Aarons, Perez and Abeid would be in my first team too. You can't pick Cisse, Tiote and Cabella ahead of them on what we saw last year. Much of that lot rest on the new fitness coach keeping, SDJ, Saylor, Abeid, Aarons, Cisse fit too. They spend a lot of time not actually being an option.

 

When it comes to our starting 11, it's not entirely awful. We have a few internationals & players who can do there jobs pretty well. We were 10th (maybe 11th?) when Pardew left and looking good. We didn't have a manager or coaching team for the remainder of the season so capitulated.

What we do need is a consistent striker (Austin?) some creativity in the midfield, a left back, centre back (possibly two if we think Colo is completely past it.) The problem we have, is that our weaknesses aren't just minor annoyances like other teams, they're giant ****ing black holes. Williamson is freaking terrible, lad is just useless. We don't just lack a little creativity in the midfield, we simply don't have any! Bar a few Colback through balls, we simply couldn't get it in the box. When we do get it in the box we can't score. Set pieces are useless but that was due to Pardew's management abilities more than anything else! I believe we scored more goals from set pieces with Carver than we did Pardew. If Cisse isn't out of form, he's spitting on someone.

So no, we don't have a ****e squad, but the weaknesses we do have are so easily exploitable. Sign a few decent players, and start working on getting our currently lot better with some decent training, and we will do well.

 

The problem with that is we are saying bits of our first xi are top ten quality. We have no depth in quality at all. So whereas Carver undoubtedly made it worse than it was, no manager McClaren or otherwise would have kept us punching above our weight like Pardew had us at the half way stage. We have the same defence bar Janmaat from 5 years ago and it wasn't all that great then. We need a touch more than a few decent players to be honest.

 

I agree with much of the above about the quality, or lack of, in the squad. Thing is, aren't we expecting those players to get better under a decent coach. If we're trying to put some faith into SM shouldn't we be saying, wonder if he'll finally get Cisse scoring on all cylinders, think he'll finally get the best out of those players who were lauded as the next great whatever but turned out to be crap. I want us to sign some quality but just ticking of every player who has suffered from poor coaching is underestimating their potential, if players can be reverese pardewed who knows what the squad is really like? There was a time when I thought Gouffran could be great, when I feared Arsenal coming in to snatch Tiote, Anita was meant to be able to push our best players out of the squad. I'm not saying any of them will reach their once suggested potential but if we're saying these players were mid-table quality under terrible coaching what could they be when they get what they need to hit their potential?

 

I would expect some improvement, but you can't polish a turd. If these players were simply good players being badly coached, I think they would have been whisked away by other clubs. Its telling that instead they have just cherry picked from us. Cabaye, Debuchy, Ba, Carroll. I think we have a habit of overrating our players to be honest. Granted the likes of Tiote, Anita (though I'd have my doubts), Cisse may improve. Realistically though the likes of Willo, Gouffran, Obertan, Sammy, Riviere, Haidara, Marveaux are what they are. They'd struggle to get in any PL team but play a high number of games for us with the exception of the latter two.

The coaching from Pardew was lauded by the likes of Cabaye. The players loved his coaching. Certainly the good players like Cabaye, Ba, and so on had no problem performing off the back of it. That leads me to think the problem is not only coaching, but one of quality. When I look at some of the basics they get wrong, its pretty much confirmed.

 

I can't disagree with the fact we need to get some players in, but I'd like to see something of a re-emergence of some of those who have fallen down in the estimations of the club and supporters. We need players in but can't wholly believe that our squad is so loaded with bench warmers that they won't be offering any competition for newcomers. If that's the case then players we sign could get complacent and end up going soft which is what I think has happened to some of those currently in the squad. Nice pay packet, first team place, little competition to keep them motivated to perform - Let's put aside the whole playing for the badge, pride, and the fact that for what they get paid they should be doing the job, it's not changing the attitude of those current players who are still going to be making up the majority of the team next season. Personally I'd like us to sign the kind of player who isn't worried about giving his teammates a kick in the arse when they're not pulling their weight, the Carver saga can only have made things worse in that respect.

 

You do realise you are laying yourself open to the wrath of Perverted Surprise when you start mentioning previous poor coaching schemes as he feels its a slight on his hero who apparently did much better than anyone else could have done with the limited resources available.

There do appear to be a number of players who have gone backwards or sideways since their first season but we are definitely not going to solve our defensive woes from what we have on staff now so our priorities for signings should start there. Midfield - fully agree. There is enough quality in there with a bit of depth, if SM can get them performing. However I think there is a too much emphasis on either ball winners/holding midfielders or midfield runners with the ball and no passers. I want one of those please.

Up front its all about confidence - I don't think a manager changes the way they play or improves their scoring ability. They either have it or they are called Riviere. The manager sets up the midfield so it creates chances for the type of forwards he has. Cisse will put chances away if he gets them. He is not quick but he has that ability to take up good positions. Perez, while he may not be as clinical, creates space with clever runs and flicks. Neither of them are hold up players so it's essential you have a midfield player who can spot runs in behind the defence and find them. We never really had that last year and I think it made us very easy to defend against.

 

A good point well made.
It may be that we will bring in one of two now, then let Mac weave his magic and assess the rest before January.

 

Funny, true and sickening all in one go. That takes some doing. Honestly Carr wants shot for Riviere. I know he gets lauded as some sort of super scout (I just don't see it - I think he is a good scout if you want to make money mind), but Riviere is an aberration beyond belief.

I think you have stumbled on something though. Confidence. Right across the squad its an important factor. My problem is ours seems incredibly fragile. I think this goes back to character of your players. Somewhere in that mix, you need a spine of players you can rely on. The blue chip brigade that Bobby described. These players although probably only 2 or 3 of your side, cost good money. Its that leader at the back who organises and kicks arse. That midfielder who does the ugly stuff no questions asked, drives his team, and that striker who leads the line. I'm not sure we have any. Therefore when things go against us, everyone just looks around for guidance, gets none and hopes someone else sorts it out. That then spirals. Its a difficult thing to reverse too without the strong willed players.

I think when irontoonboom says he wants a few players who will kick arse, who aren't just sheep/passengers who play well when the goings good, I agree. We need something else. Talent has only ever got any sportsman so far. That is just the way it is. The mental side of it and strength of character is huge. If people want to dismiss it then fine, but you'll end up watching a repeat of the last few years. Surely McClaren with his experience can see this. We ain't got no cojones. Its not so much people being badly coached or Pardewed, its more that we haven't bothered to build a football team. We have collected a few individuals, some talented, some not so much, slung them together and then hoped we can get through the season. It all goes back to the way you operate as a club. What is more important - money or football. Football should always come first because money is a likely by product anyway. We haven't cared enough about the club performs in its primary function - or we've tried to alter the primary function.

 

If Pardew was a good coach why did he have us try the same corner and free kick retain over and over for 3 years with no sign of it working? Yes you know, the diagonal to Williamson.

That in itself proves he was a pathetic coach.

 

Our worst period in living history of scoring from set piece play was under Pardew.
Our best period of results in recent history came about when injuries forced Pardew to adopt a 4-3-3.
I honestly don't think the bloke was a decent coach at all.
A decent coach would know how to coach set pieces and surely choose to experiment with different formations rather have them forced on him.
He was a good man manager, that's why some liked him.
We shouldn't confuse the two though.