Off Topic London Calling: New Border Rules

Discussion in 'Sunderland' started by Blond Bombshell, Dec 14, 2020.

  1. Unlucky Alf

    Unlucky Alf Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2011
    Messages:
    4,986
    Likes Received:
    3,019
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55820178

    Covid-19: 'Poor decisions' to blame for UK death toll, scientists say
    Published
    34 minutes ago
    "A legacy of poor decisions" by the UK before and during the pandemic led to one of the worst death rates in the world, scientists have said.

    Labour also criticised "monumental mistakes" by the prime minister in delaying acting on scientific advice over lockdowns three times.

    After UK deaths passed 100,000, Boris Johnson said he took "full responsibility" for the actions taken.

    But he said it was too soon to learn the lessons from the pandemic response.

    Prof Linda Bauld, public health expert from the University of Edinburgh, said the UK's current position was "a legacy of poor decisions that were taken when we eased restrictions".

    She told the BBC the lack of focus on test and trace and the "absolute inability to recognise" the need to address international travel had also led to a more deadly winter surge.

    Prof Sir Michael Marmot, who carried out a review of inequalities in Covid-19 deaths, said the UK had entered the pandemic "in a bad state" with rising health inequality, a slowdown in life expectancy improvements and a lack of investment in the public sector.

    Shadow health secretary Jonathan Ashworth rejected Mr Johnson's claim that he had done "everything we could" to minimise the death toll, adding: "I do not accept that."

    He said the prime minister had been given scientific advice to impose lockdowns and "pushed that back" - not only in March but again in September and December.

    The government also failed to create a working contact-tracing system, did not introduce effective health controls at the borders and still did not offer "proper sick pay", he said.

    At Prime Minister's Questions, Mr Johnson said: "I mourn every death in this pandemic and we share the grief of all those who have been bereaved. I and the government take full responsibility for all the actions we have taken to fight this pandemic."

    He said there would be time to reflect on the decisions taken, but he did not think the right time was in the middle of the pandemic when "37,000 people are struggling with Covid in our hospitals".

    The government needed to focus on keeping the virus under control and continuing the fastest vaccine roll-out in Europe, he said.
     
    #1361
  2. Makemstine Roger

    Makemstine Roger Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2011
    Messages:
    21,665
    Likes Received:
    14,467
    German media savages the EU for its vaccine shambles and tears into Ursula Von Der Leyen's UK jabs threat, while jealously admiring Brexit Brits for ordering vaccines three months before Brussels, Some vaccines are still awaiting clearance from the EU officials. To date only 30 million vaccines have been ordered for the whole of the EU, Bulgaria has already broken ranks and bought vaccines from Russia.

    Well done Boris this action will save lots of lives mainly the old and chronic who will be treated first along with hospital staff and police, Now getting people to act sensibly, will reduce the risk of the two new virulent virus mutations, affecting the nation before all have the cure.
     
    #1362
    Saff likes this.
  3. Smug in Boots

    Smug in Boots Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2011
    Messages:
    32,233
    Likes Received:
    43,903
    I'm a bit out of touch here so excuse my ignorance but what happened to the Nightingale hospitals?

    They cost around £500 million but have virtually no staff and have treated only an insignificant amount of people when the NHS hospitals are full. What, if you know, was the point as it looks like a very costly publicity stunt.
     
    #1363
  4. DH4

    DH4 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2019
    Messages:
    1,169
    Likes Received:
    2,111
    Sunderland one is going to be used as a vaccination centre. They did not have the staff to run them apparently.
     
    #1364
  5. Smug in Boots

    Smug in Boots Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2011
    Messages:
    32,233
    Likes Received:
    43,903
    That's what always puzzled me tbh.

    The NHS hospitals are short of staff.

    After Brexit, European hospital workers are now no longer automatically able to come to the UK to work.

    Where did the government expect to find all these thousands of extra staff?
     
    #1365
    G Force Ghost and Montysoptician like this.
  6. DH4

    DH4 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2019
    Messages:
    1,169
    Likes Received:
    2,111
    And add to that 40,000+ NHS staff are on sick leave.
     
    #1366
    Smug in Boots likes this.
  7. Makemstine Roger

    Makemstine Roger Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2011
    Messages:
    21,665
    Likes Received:
    14,467
    political point scoring at a time like this is reprehensible
     
    #1367
    farnboromackem likes this.
  8. rowley

    rowley Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2019
    Messages:
    352
    Likes Received:
    961
    Well they could certainly have acted to prevent "unnecessary" contact, though what that means in practice is impossible to guess.

    But, around nine to ten million people have went to work as usual throughout this. If they had not, there would be no water, gas, electricity, food, hospitals, transport, deliveries etc etc etc. I am among that number.

    Certainly the virus could have been contained more. But at what cost? Almost certainly more lives, but those here in charge, and elsewhere, have,had to make decisions on the basis of trying to keep society functioning, albeit dormant. Too much restraint and a critical mass of the economy is lost. Too little and the same. Others, particularly grandstanding and Janus faced politicians just have to look for a way to make a cheap and often childish point, almost invariably with no record of having suggesting a different action at the time.

    I'm glad it's not me making these calls.
     
    #1368
  9. The Norton Cat

    The Norton Cat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2015
    Messages:
    3,655
    Likes Received:
    4,140
    The London one is, apparently, being used for non-Covid patients so that beds are available in the normal hospitals. The rest of it is supposed to be a vaccination centre. However, I've heard nothing more about this since it was announced.

    https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n15
     
    #1369
  10. Smug in Boots

    Smug in Boots Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2011
    Messages:
    32,233
    Likes Received:
    43,903
    [
    That's fair enough mate, essential workers need to keep things going.

    What I feel has been badly handled is the endless unnecessary flights, the pubs being left open, things like the Cheltenham horse racing with a quarter of a million people mixing together, pop concerts, etc.

    I'd be quite happy to make those calls and it would be 'no, not happening because it will kill people'.
     
    #1370
    rowley, Unlucky Alf and DH4 like this.

  11. Draig

    Draig Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2019
    Messages:
    624
    Likes Received:
    1,080
    One thing that we need to remember before we kick Boris to death over his handling on Covid - it was here before our previously thought first known cases,

    To remind people, those were two chinese nationals. A student (arrived 6 Jan) and his mother (arrived 23 Jan) at York - taken to hospital at Hull on 29 Jan and tested positive 30 Jan.

    The first case was confirmed In August by a Coroner had the presence of coronavirus confirmed in post mortem lung tissue from an 85 yr old man from Kent, who died on 30 Jan 2020.

    The man fell ill with high temp and cough in December and went to hospital on 07 Jan. Crucially, he had no history of travel outside the UK.

    Add to that the genetic study of UK Coronavirus samples that identified that the virus was brought into the UK on at least 1,300 separate occasions so there wasnt a single index patient that started UK outbreak.

    The same study Identified that transmission direct from China had little impact on UK and, in the main, the UK's initial cases came from European countries.

    So we have Coronavirus circulating here in the UK in December and arrived on at least 1300 separate events (possibly with multiple people in at least some of those events).

    No amount of isolation or contact tracing could have prevented the UK outbreak in 2020.

    What Boris must take full responsibility for in the first wave is not acting once Professor Neil Fergussen of Imperial College released the results of their Covid-19 Outbreak Modelling (of cases without any intevention) showing 510,000 UK fatalities could be expected - this came out on a 16 March and Lockdown was only announced one week later on 23 March.

    This delay is estimated to have cost more than 20,000 lives, according to Prof Ferguson.

    Failure to act on SAGE advice to lockdown in September undoubtedly cost many more lives.

    Boris serially failed to act on the best scientific advice and that cost the lives of tens of thousands of British people.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...rus-uk-china-death-peter-attwood-b421030.html

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/health-52993734

    Edit: Copied wrong BBC Link into post so corrected.
     
    #1371
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2021
    DH4 and The Norton Cat like this.
  12. Makemstine Roger

    Makemstine Roger Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2011
    Messages:
    21,665
    Likes Received:
    14,467
    thank you for that mate a very informative read, Boris may have things to answer for, however it clearly states that covid came from the EU and on 1300 occasions, it also states No amount of isolation or contact tracing could have prevented the UK outbreak in 2020.
    And just like every other European country he needed hard evidence before he could take action to wreck the UK economy, which he did after seeing hard evidence. It was a tightrope to walk you cant keep all of the people happy all of the time, and because of the party you follow there will always be haters. Is it not time now to heal instead of incessant threads of blame .
     
    #1372
    spirit of 73 likes this.
  13. Smug in Boots

    Smug in Boots Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2011
    Messages:
    32,233
    Likes Received:
    43,903
    It's very true there have been many tough decisions.

    Where the PM goes wrong is in totally misjudging situations and sending out the wrong message.

    Going into Covid wards, without a mask, and shaking hands with people in intensive care was bad.

    Boasting about it was idiotic ...

    ... ending up in intensive care was almost inevitable.
     
    #1373
  14. rooch 3

    rooch 3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2011
    Messages:
    8,643
    Likes Received:
    8,139
    This has got to be the most boring repetitive thread I’ve seen on here since I joined.
     
    #1374
    Makemstine Roger likes this.
  15. Draig

    Draig Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2019
    Messages:
    624
    Likes Received:
    1,080
    Roger, hard evidence is what you don't get at the start of an epidemic. You act quickly in the hope that you don't get hard evidence.

    Ignoring that, you could argue lack of evidence only for the first wave. By the time September came around we already had over 40,000 deaths, so that must have counted as hard evidence!
     
    #1375
  16. Makemstine Roger

    Makemstine Roger Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2011
    Messages:
    21,665
    Likes Received:
    14,467
    without trying to be pedantic mate this just keeps going around. if Boris closes everything down who gets us food the virus also came with truck delivery guys Then flights Brits trying to get back home, foreigner's stuck at the ports of entry trying to get home, who gives them the necessity's feeds them bed accommodation who pays for it the list is endless. lets face it Stammer backed his decisions all the way. Boris the poor bugger is dammed if he doesn't and dammed if he does, trying to turn the board against the government by incessant sniping does nobody any good, and only causes animosity and people falling out, we as a board all love Sunderland , yet threads vilifying people who have a different view point is stupid. we can all disagree with football ,but it never descends to this level ,yet it is lapped up by people constantly re igniting the flames,
     
    #1376
  17. Chunksafc

    Chunksafc Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2019
    Messages:
    2,155
    Likes Received:
    3,508


    This is shocking
     
    #1377
  18. rowley

    rowley Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2019
    Messages:
    352
    Likes Received:
    961
    Aye, something in the cheltenham thing certainly. Definitely a few bollocks dropped all over the place.

    I think I might vote for Screaming Lord Sutch were he to return to this mortal earth. I did once actually!. I was working in Newcastle under Lyme in the mid eighties at the time of a bye election. As I was there for a while, I registered and got a vote.( Bit too easily actually looking back!)

    He clinched it for me when he squeezed his way onto a local telly programme where the other candidates were giving out the usual anodyne rubbish. They eventually had to involve him and when asked his solution to some problem or other said, "Easy, I'd repatriate the Norman's!"

    Best line ever from any candidate in any election anywhere!
     
    #1378
    Smug in Boots likes this.
  19. Smug in Boots

    Smug in Boots Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2011
    Messages:
    32,233
    Likes Received:
    43,903
    <laugh>
     
    #1379
  20. Smug in Boots

    Smug in Boots Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2011
    Messages:
    32,233
    Likes Received:
    43,903
    This is what happens when idiots act on misinformation they believe to be facts.
     
    #1380
    DH4 likes this.

Share This Page