I completely agree he would switch off completely and then do from 3f out what most horses can only do from 1 1/2 / 2f out!
Listen, listen, listen ..............................................
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I completely agree he would switch off completely and then do from 3f out what most horses can only do from 1 1/2 / 2f out!
Remember how Mick Kinane rode Montjeu in the King George?
Thats how I'd of liked to have seen Frankel ridden, as he had so much talent, that a jockey who could ride with confidence would of had a field day on him.
Unfortunately Queally rode with such nerves, that he felt the need to give the horse a hard race every time, when he was sitting on a horse with 20 pounds in hand.
Just ease him to the front, and let him laugh at the opposition in 3rd gear, that's how I like to see good horses ridden
Thats how I'd of liked to have seen Frankel ridden, as he had so much talent, that a jockey who could ride with confidence would of had a field day on him.
Unfortunately Queally rode with such nerves, that he felt the need to give the horse a hard race every time, when he was sitting on a horse with 20 pounds in hand.
Just ease him to the front, and let him laugh at the opposition in 3rd gear, that's how I like to see good horses ridden
Nor is running the horse at 12 furlongs everything either.
Remarkable horse to watch he was and glad to have seen him winning, whether it was over 5 furlongs or a mile, i just enjoyed his demolition jobs, he was breathtaking.
Yes, of course, we are bound to have different opinions on this subject. Regardless of the Juddmonte, TopClass, I am just not convinced he would have won the Arc on testing ground. Also, to use the word "quirky" to describe Frankel would be unfair and incorrect, but he had his peculiarities to some degree. For example, I did read that he just hated to travel, even relatively short distances, like to Goodwood where, apparently, his stable were a bit concerned before his big race there. Didn't matter, he swamped them, as usual.
I certainly accept that many are disappointed he didn't have a go at a mile-and-a-half, I'm just glad he didn't.
I certainly accept that many are disappointed he didn't have a go at a mile-and-a-half, I'm just glad he didn't.
Seems a bit unfair to suggest a mile and a half is needed to confirm status.
What I am saying is that it would have added to Frankels greatness had he been allowed to prove his versatility. I'm not disputing that Frankel will be remembered as a great, as he clearly will. But he could have settled it beyond any doubt as to who the greatest horse of all time was, had he been allowed to run in the Derby
What I am saying is that it would have added to Frankels greatness had he been allowed to prove his versatility. I'm not disputing that Frankel will be remembered as a great, as he clearly will. But he could have settled it beyond any doubt as to who the greatest horse of all time was, had he been allowed to run in the Derby
Apparently they were seriously considering it but with the sad passing of Greville Starkey they had no one to ride him at Epsom
A couple of points re this thread.
I think many of you are being very harsh re Mr O’Brien. He is unquestionably one of the best trainers of all time in my view. And he is still some way off Simon Crisford’s tally of saying ‘Sheikh Mohammed’ 51 times in one 3 and a half minute interview! Mr O’Brien is in the very unique position, amongst top UK based Flat trainers, of handling no horses trained by someone whose wealth is based on them despoiling and oppressing a nation. Just look at the top 20 or so owners, on the level, and you will find that oh so many of them fall into this category. Coolmore’s wealth in comparison is based on hard work, sound business decisions and the brilliant brains of ‘the lads’. Also ‘bigging’ up and praising his horses is, whether you like it or not, part of Mr O’Brien’s job description. Coolmore are a business and so their trainer(s) will be expected to do this with an eye to their beast’s future stallion prospects. Afterall, unlike many top owners they can’t go to their ‘rulers’ and be given a cheque for hundreds of millions, now can they?!? It always amazes me how on this forum so many seem to think that if you get your loot via oppression and tyranny you are marvellous yet if you get it through hard work and sound business decisions you are in someway dubious and to be viewed with suspicion!
And re Frankel. He has undoubtedly been one of the very, very, very best horses of my lifetime and is a personal fave. However, my main critique re the horse is that he only ever ran in this small Isle and that must be quite a negative against him in an age of international competition. I never believed that Sea The Stars was the ‘reincarnation of Pegasus’ but one thing you have to credit him for is the fact that he embraced and conquered international competition. How much better would Frankel’s CV have looked had he also won a Group 1 race in France, Ireland, the US, the Far East or elsewhere?!?
I think many of you are being very harsh re Mr O’Brien. He is unquestionably one of the best trainers of all time in my view. And he is still some way off Simon Crisford’s tally of saying ‘Sheikh Mohammed’ 51 times in one 3 and a half minute interview! Mr O’Brien is in the very unique position, amongst top UK based Flat trainers, of handling no horses trained by someone whose wealth is based on them despoiling and oppressing a nation. Just look at the top 20 or so owners, on the level, and you will find that oh so many of them fall into this category. Coolmore’s wealth in comparison is based on hard work, sound business decisions and the brilliant brains of ‘the lads’. Also ‘bigging’ up and praising his horses is, whether you like it or not, part of Mr O’Brien’s job description. Coolmore are a business and so their trainer(s) will be expected to do this with an eye to their beast’s future stallion prospects. Afterall, unlike many top owners they can’t go to their ‘rulers’ and be given a cheque for hundreds of millions, now can they?!? It always amazes me how on this forum so many seem to think that if you get your loot via oppression and tyranny you are marvellous yet if you get it through hard work and sound business decisions you are in someway dubious and to be viewed with suspicion!
And re Frankel. He has undoubtedly been one of the very, very, very best horses of my lifetime and is a personal fave. However, my main critique re the horse is that he only ever ran in this small Isle and that must be quite a negative against him in an age of international competition. I never believed that Sea The Stars was the ‘reincarnation of Pegasus’ but one thing you have to credit him for is the fact that he embraced and conquered international competition. How much better would Frankel’s CV have looked had he also won a Group 1 race in France, Ireland, the US, the Far East or elsewhere?!?
Nice post Barney and I agree with both your points. I always find it interesting that lots of people have a major problem with Manchester City being owned by Shikhs but very few people care about our best stables being propped up by petrodollars. In fairness, that isn't entirely the case on this forum.
I had the immense pleasure of watching Frankel on the first Champions Day at Ascot and also in the Judmont at York - the reaction of the crowd was one I'll never forget. I've never seen anything like it before or since on a racecourse
I honestly couldn't care less about who owns or buys the horses, aslong as there are horses to bet on everyday I'm happy.
The Sheiks money is the sheiks money, let them spend it on what they want. It's up to them if they want to buy race horses with it
The Sheiks money is the sheiks money, let them spend it on what they want. It's up to them if they want to buy race horses with it
Sir Barney, listen, the hoss didn't like to travel far from his stable. Humans and animals all have their peculiarities, I mean, you like Wiltshire for God's sake. I was in the R.A.F. there for 3-months; couldn't get out of the bloody county quick enough. I love Singapore, but I accept that a lot of people don't, and find it oppressive.
Seriously, I honestly don't think Frankel could have done himself justice if he had travelled to Asia or North America. He would have been a nervous wreck, after the journey. Doubt if he'd have made it to Paris either; in one mental piece, that is. If that problem would exclude him as a real champion in some people's minds, then fair enough, but for me, on the tracks he ran on, he was a champion.
Seriously, I honestly don't think Frankel could have done himself justice if he had travelled to Asia or North America. He would have been a nervous wreck, after the journey. Doubt if he'd have made it to Paris either; in one mental piece, that is. If that problem would exclude him as a real champion in some people's minds, then fair enough, but for me, on the tracks he ran on, he was a champion.
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Listen, Frankel could have run in the Prix Du Moulin De Longchamp as a four year old. They entered the horse for the race as it fitted between the Juddmonte International and Champions’ Day but instead they opted for a racecourse gallop. I was at Longchamp and Moonlight Cloud won in his absence. There might actually have been the second biggest crowd of the year in France (after the Arc) if he had shown up. No idea why France Galop did not bung Lord Grimthorpe a few Euros to sort it out.