I don't often write off topic threads on the Gills board but occasionally I make an exception and this is one such time. Anyone that knows me off the site, will be pretty much aware of my social/class views in regards to football and my thoughts towards Thatcher and successive governments and media outlets that portray and discriminate against football supporters and treat them as criminals. You will also be aware I am consistent and unwavering in my opinion and believe in standing up for what is right. On the 15th April 1989, Maggie Thatcher let loose her class warriors at Hillsborough similar behaviour was shown by her army before that infamous day in the miners strike during 1984-85; http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/s...-behaviour-during-7870156#0AeEoDzo3BdPEy7M.97 At last 27 years on the truth finally came out after I watched that fateful day unfold... Q6: “Are you satisfied, so that you are sure, that those who died in the disaster were unlawfully killed? Answer ‘yes’ or ‘no’.” We sit here not just as survivors, but as some of the accused. From the moment the inquests began, in March 2014, lawyers for the former match commanders at Hillsborough, led by John Beggs QC, have thrown vicious allegations on their behalf: that we were drunk, without tickets, badly behaved, aggressive and non-compliant. We sit quietly, and wonder if the jury has seen through their bile. It will not be easy: over three decades, we have been described as “animalistic” (Chief Constable Peter Wright), “tanked-up yobs” (Margaret Thatcher’s press secretary Sir Bernard Ingham), and – quite simply – as “mental” (Paul Middup,Police Federation rep). Much of the public held us to be the people who pissed on brave coppers, or attacked them as they gave the kiss of life to stricken victims – all this while we were busy robbing the dead. These allegations, of course, were mostly carried in the Sun’s infamous front-page story of 19 April 1989, under the headline The Truth. It was Kelvin MacKenzie’s final choice as a banner headline; the first he had considered was: “You Scum”. A cross-section of the scum are here today. Damian has spent his career as a pensions administrator. Tim is a newspaper sub-editor. Nick is an accountant. Richie runs his own courier firm. Mike is a digital executive and a CBE. I am an author and journalist. All of us, just your average football fans of the 1980s. Now the coroner reads out Q6 to the forewoman, still unseen. “Are you satisfied, so that you are sure, that those who died in the disaster were unlawfully killed? Is your answer yes?” The forewoman’s voice is calm and reassuring, and wears lightly the huge responsibility. With the faintest trace of a lisp, she says: “Yes.” The coroner: “Was there any behaviour on the part of football supporters which caused or contributed to the dangerous situation at the Leppings Lane turnstiles? Is your answer No?” “It is.” Kenneth Clarke MP has admitted, Thatcher had declared football fans as an enemy within: not football hooligans – football fans. and this view was supported by the media, who only ever wanted to try and find the negative side of our game to paint every innocent supporter with the same brush. Hence why also to this day, I in main avoid reading tabloids. http://www.theguardian.com/football...uest-survivor-adrian-tempany?CMP=share_btn_tw Don't believe what people tell you about why all seater stadiums came about because it was all built on a pack of lies. Thatcher knew the truth and tried to cover it up. Her aim was to social cleanse not just football but our society, but football played a big part of every community so the Wicked Witch of West began her hunt. Remember every time you see a yellow jacket or want a beer, or want to stand, or want to smoke, or want to swear, you nothing more than an innocent supporter are the enemy within. The game today and your so called unhealthy lifestyle has been priced out for a reason, not just just because of greed and marketing albeit that is a big part of it, but because Thatcher and her Warriors wanted control of YOU!
brb Sadly, on this occasion you are right - not that you'll take any comfort from that. However, in the interest of 'justice for all' ( as being promoted by the Liverpool fans ), I want to introduce a 'but' !! into this matter. I have recently been talking to a friend who was conducting independent duties at Hillsborough around the same period as this tragedy. He had, in the course of his 'duties', video evidence of breaches of health & safety in relation to admission of fans into parts of the ground on other match days - especially the Leppings Lane end. He was able to show that the stewards flouted the rules about maximum numbers allowed into these areas - and even moved in 'opposition' supporters. This evidence must have been available to the matchday organisers - as well as any personal testimony when these people have their debrief. Surely somebody must have had some idea that, without proper control of admission policy an 'accident' was going to happen. I don't blame the police for wanting to absolve themselves of any 'guilt.' This can be a natural reaction - especially given that, in football, there have been many occasions when mindless moronic 'fans' have provided so much mitigation for the people in charge -- but -- ultimately, those people in charge cannot deny their 'responsibility' when things go wrong........ Does this issue come as a coincidence after I have discussed some concerns on the 'Millwalll Game thread.' And why do I raise such concerns ? It isn't because I feel happy that two sets of opposing fans can sit beside each other without some idiot causing trouble ( it only takes one ). Football fans have been tarred with the same brush for decades. A mindless minority have caused so much grief for 'normal' fans and for people in control of crowd management - and that is why society has had to ban alcohol on football supporters coaches, have needed to segregate opposing fans, and monitor their behaviour as if we all are yobs. The people in control don't help their cause with their lack of 'communication skills' -- or should I say 'jobsworthy' attitude. Sadly we have seen on too many occasions, stewards who just cannot stop themselves from going on a 'power trip.' -- with little thought of the chaos that their 'sledgehammer tactics' will create. And, of course, at the opposing end of the spectrum, we get 'officials' who are apathetic - and you wonder why they have bothered to turn up if they allow 'serious' breaches to occur --- perhaps it was some mix of apathy and lunacy that led to the ground staff at Hillsborough to open the 'flood'gates - to get a group of ever so quietly behaved saints moved away - so that these angelic football fans were no longer a problem for the officials at the turnstile. And why was this decision made ? - none other than the fact that the ground staff feared for their lives if anyone dared to tell the yobs -- sorry, I meant to say the fans, that the ground was full -- " Now, please ladies & gentlemen, please walk away quietly and enjoy the rest of your day." Nobody connected with any aspect of football can be proud of what happened 27 years ago. Nobody can be proud of what continues to blight football as an occasion of 'family entertainment.' Nobody can feel vindicated by the result of the Hillsborough disaster -- but, it was a disaster -- it wasn't murder. The verdict of unlawful killing suggests an element of premeditation - which is wrong - although I'm not sure how else to word such decisions -- perhaps 'Culpable homicide'. What is right is that people should be accountable for their actions. It is right that the police face up to their responsibility. It is right that the Hillsborough match day controller be made responsible, along with any over-reactory or apathetic steward. It is also right that the fans, especially those waiting outside the ground, take a good look at themselves - because I would be staggered if not one of them, didn't set into motion the awful sequence of events , compounded by the lunatic decisions made by ground officials ( along with their failure - and the failure of the police, based on historical evidence ). So if the Liverpool fans wanted 'Justice', they should remember that 'justice' is for all - not just 96 people. The fans of families whose loved ones died that day have my sympathy - but if we're now pointing fingers at people, we need to understand that this probably all started because of the aggression shown outside the ground by Liverpool fans - and that this behaviour caused frightened staff into making a tragic mistake in letting too many fans into the Leppings Lane end - not because the Police or ground staff wanted to kill anyone. Now - you'll remind me that, at the enquiry, no substantiated evidence was produced to suggest that the fans outside the ground weren't anything other than ever-so-gentle and waiting quietly, in an orderly line etc etc. REALLY ???? -- excuse my flippancy - I'm currently under attack from some porcine aviation. My take on this lack of evidence is that a group of Liverpool 'fans' ( I didn't say yobs ), have all experienced temporary blindness at the same moment - so they couldn't possibly testify to any fact that might suggest that they have 'some' responsibility -- So much for 'Justice for all.' Will football ever learn ???? We'll have some answer to that question on Sunday !
alwaysright - thank you for introducing a but. I always prefer a balanced story from both sides and you have added that balance, regardless of my opinion. I supplied a link within that story to the miners strike and a particular occasion 1984-85 - albeit there was many other stories around the miners strikes and how it left Thatcher and her warriors wanting revenge, which I have left out. Today's pampered world does not see what went on back then, when some coppers tactics of taking control was by grabbing you by the throat, while their buddies would gather round blocking the view, ushering the general public out of the way, leaving their intended victim in no doubt they were about to get a good kicking. Anyone want to think I joke?...I've been around a long time in football i've seen it all and I saw such an event. That's how it was in them days but you never saw that reported in the media but of course the guy must have asked for it I hear you say, like I said I witnessed what happened. While an opposite argument would be the fear of telling supporters to politely go home, I remember Everton 1983-84, I was in the Rainham End, they just kept letting them in, people around me were saying are they going to close the turnstiles now, I don't think they are going to get many more in, if their was a surge you was lifted off your feet. Now this may be disputable my memory of records tells me there was over 17,000 in the ground that day. Now stop and think about that for one moment, we all survived and went home, even despite losing what was it 0-3 but....the point I'm trying to make if things had gone wrong and another 3-5k had turned up, who is to blame, me standing already in the ground quite legally causing no trouble, me standing legally outside the ground queuing to get in, causing no trouble, or the people that are supposed to be and were paid to be protecting us? But there was an assumption back then or particularly in 1989 created by the media and Thatcher that we were all scum or certainly as that disgusting paper the Sun would like to portray us! Yes, I've seen pitch invasions, including Millwall, but you no what I never ever once saw anyone killed. Even Gillingham itself has history of such a bad event, I'm sure I need not remind anyone of the club name Fulham (said with respect). So do we tar every single Gillingham supporter with the same brush and through one very fateful moment call every one of our supporters criminals and treat them as such. Football has changed from the have nots, to the haves, a class movement, just how Thatcher wanted it, she knew damn well that football was at the heart of EVERY COMMUNITY, she knew that if you wanted social change in the UK to fit a Tory governments ideals of social cleansing then you start at the roots, and football is grass roots for one and all. All I ask is don't be scared mongered by rumours of old, yes there was bad times but just see through the lies of the Government and the Media of the UK.
brb - Just for you - I'm sorry it's in colour -- you probably remember it in black & white ! https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjtkI2hhrvMAhXHBcAKHabSDYsQtwIILzAD&url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrhqp2UEYJw&usg=AFQjCNFX9j4FJodD1M6XnmS6OmC01Iz5wg&sig2=g5RXUOF__qLvGyIdgIeHyw&bvm=bv.121070826,d.ZGg I understand your viewpoint - and I am sure you appreciate mine. As I said there are many people and different groups of them that are accountable for what happened at Hillsborough - and nobody is doing themselves any favour by not accepting their responsibility - and that must include the 'blind' fans. I do find it incredible that decent Liverpool fans on the day didn't see anything wrong in the behaviour of their fellow supporters - and willing to testify - but then I expect that when people die in road traffic 'accidents / killings' in Merseyside during rush hour periods , it is the fault of the Police for allowing more vehicles to be driven on already busy roads - and nothing to do with the way in which motorists conduct themselves at the wheel !! - I'm sorry if this sounds ridiculous - but I genuinely feel it is a very similar analogy to the events on that fateful day in Sheffield - Nobody wants to take any blame - we were all travelling at between 25 - 30 mph at the time of the 'accident' ! The pedestrian just stepped out into the road in front of me ! I couldn't avoid them - I was only doing 30 mph --- but 3o mph on a road at rush hour times can be grounds for 'dangerous driving' - so there can be examples of inappropriate behaviour within what is normally acceptable - the circumstances need to dictate the behavoiur of the participants ( including Liverpool fans ) - because justice is for all - and based on the whole truth - not an economical version. Yes - Blame the Police. Yes - Blame the ground staff Yes - Blame the politicians Yes - Blame anyone else, his uncle and his monkey But - Please, Liverpool fans, in proper respect for the 'victims' of the tragedy, do the decent thing, and ( where appropriate ), be honest with any blame you should bear. R.I.P. 96
Jeez that brought back some memories. Loved the video after it too from 1974. Len Ashurst, never forget him walking out on the club to Sheffield Wednesday, I called him some names that day for sure LOL - Also worth noting at the beginning of the second video who scored against us, none other than Keith Peacock.
