Liability Luiz

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CPofL KTBFFH said:
The same part of name one that you don't.
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not displaying the greatest deal of intelligence here CP, I'll have to spell it out. In every game Luiz featured in pre-injury, I thought he was superb. Especially since it's not his strongest position and how much we've missed Mikel in the process. Or do you really want me to name every game he featured in now?
 
Give it a rest guy's, we are begining to sound like the Gooner's. Let's judge Ba after a few more games, if he has the opportunities that El Burro has had and **** up, then give him **** but untill then he seems like the best central striking option on board.
 
Okeydokey said:
Give it a rest guy's, we are begining to sound like the Gooner's. Let's judge Ba after a few more games, if he has the opportunities that El Burro has had and **** up, then give him **** but untill then he seems like the best central striking option on board.
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agreed, I'll happily concede CPofL's opinion on him if that's the case however I can't see how 3 goals in 6 starts is a bad thing
 
I think we all agree he isn't a CB, but not sure how he has been bad in midfield. One of few players we have that can actually pass the ball and has upper body strength.

There are bigger problems than Luiz. The Centre Backs have all been shocking and Cole has been massively inconsistent but we dont have a LB fit to lace his boots.

It's about time we start looking at formation, Torres - fine. When Ba starts looking anonymous you have to wonder is it the tactics? Our formation is made for someone like Lukaku or Torres of old, someone that will put themselves about. What we have now is 2 goal poachers (one very good, one very bad). To get the best out of a goal poacher you need 4-3-3 or 4-4-2. Our 4-2-3-1 isn't made to suit strikers it's made to suit midfielders which is fine by me as long as Mata continues to produce. What we need is somebody suited to our way of playing - Lewandowski.

Luiz isn't the problem, he would be among my first 5 names on the team sheet behind Cech, Mata, Cole and Hazard.
 
District Line said:
I think we all agree he isn't a CB, but not sure how he has been bad in midfield. One of few players we have that can actually pass the ball and has upper body strength.

There are bigger problems than Luiz. The Centre Backs have all been shocking and Cole has been massively inconsistent but we dont have a LB fit to lace his boots.
1000% correct. I have been calling for a change in formation all season. Without Drogba ,1 up front is a waste of good players.
Also agree about our centre backs. Cahill has been seriously ordinary, Brana shows week after week he's a left back, Terry just looks past it, Luiz is unpredictable, but by no means worse than any of the others. Put him in midfield, and I think he's been superb, strangely, especially with Lamps. They'd be my midfield every time.
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I'm sorry... but I disagree with you on both accounts. Luiz has been a little careless but he still puts in a shift, shows passion and desire and he's done well in his new position. He provides good cover for the defenders. I think he's ding a good job.

And with Ba... Against Stoke he was great. Away at Southampton his movement was awesome and he scored twice. Remember that yesterday he was playing with a broken ****ing nose which can never be easy to play with! He hasn't really had much of a chance as I feel Rafa still favours ****ing Torres!
 
His action towards the end of the game, when the game was already in the bag were stupid and unneccesary! however he is a character who does have lots of skills that are important to the team, both in defence and midfield! I'm sure he'll be looking back at that and thinking badly about it!
 
Bucks Blue said:
I'm sorry... but I disagree with you on both accounts. Luiz has been a little careless but he still puts in a shift, shows passion and desire and he's done well in his new position. He provides good cover for the defenders. I think he's ding a good job.

And with Ba... Against Stoke he was great. Away at Southampton his movement was awesome and he scored twice. Remember that yesterday he was playing with a broken ****ing nose which can never be easy to play with! He hasn't really had much of a chance as I feel Rafa still favours ****ing Torres!
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Pretty much spot on. I though Luiz had a good game yesterday. Was always willing to take the ball and passed it around very well. He always looks to take responsibility and to move the team forward with his passing and movement. He'll have better games but he was still one of our better performers along with Oscar and Mata.

As for Ba, don't really remember him getting any real service as all our goals were pretty much counter attacks with midfielders ariving late to score (save for Terry's). I don't think Ba was poor but am starting to wonder if any striker would bang them in in this side as we don't create a lot of chances for a number 9 type.
 
I along with many others always wanted Luiz tried in midfield and i feel its paid off. He's strong, a great passer of the ball, puts himself about and has loads of energy. I don't even think he's that bad as a Defender but i do prefer him in Midfield.

It's Defence were we are struggling. Well in the middle of it anyway. Cole, although inconsistent this season is still one of the finest Left Backs in the world and Azpi looks class down the right. Terry is getting on and can't play every game, the more i see Cahill the more i see he's way out of his depth and Iva has been horrendous for most of the season. It's time we looked for a new Centre back IMO, one who can lead the time too.

I'm not overly keen on the 4231 either. I see other teams play it and it works, but it's because they don't completely stick to it. We refuse to change the system no matter how the game is going. Man Utd constantly change the system midgame. Rooney ends up out left, behind RVP, alongside RVP etc.
 
Chelsea Pensioner said:
District Line said:
I think we all agree he isn't a CB, but not sure how he has been bad in midfield. One of few players we have that can actually pass the ball and has upper body strength.

There are bigger problems than Luiz. The Centre Backs have all been shocking and Cole has been massively inconsistent but we dont have a LB fit to lace his boots.
1000% correct. I have been calling for a change in formation all season. Without Drogba ,1 up front is a waste of good players.
Also agree about our centre backs. Cahill has been seriously ordinary, Brana shows week after week he's a left back, Terry just looks past it, Luiz is unpredictable, but by no means worse than any of the others. Put him in midfield, and I think he's been superb, strangely, especially with Lamps. They'd be my midfield every time.
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It was easy to scapegoat Bosingwa and Meireles last season but they are gone now. We should have 11 competent players that will produce each week. Ramires has been the worst under-performer of this season yet nobody criticises him.

We don't need two holding midfielders now, we have a team that should be able to dictate play/control possession against any team in England.

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This is my team and formation every time. Sub Oscar and Lampard, they are too similar to both play in the same team IMO.
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That looks an excellent set up to me, with Moses and Lamps able to come in, along with Obi. Do think we need to look closely at CBs', though forwards need to up their defence as per Joe Cole when Jose kicked him very hard.
 
Chelsea Pensioner said:
That looks an excellent set up to me, with Moses and Lamps able to come in, along with Obi. Do think we need to look closely at CBs', though forwards need to up their defence as per Joe Cole when Jose kicked him very hard.
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Good shout with Moses CP, Moses, Mata and Hazard pretty much all interchangeable.
 
I've called Luiz 'Loopy Lu' since his first match for us. Here we go Loopy Lu, Here we go Loopy li. He is passionate when he plays and loses all composure and wants to save the goals make the tackles win the headers and score the goals. He reminders me of a nine year old playing football, chasing the ball all over the pitch.

I think it stems from a self confidence bordering on arrogance. He plays in an elongated bubble. His vision is exceptional forwards, but he simply doesn't look to the side or back enough. He is like an experienced driver and no longer uses the mirrors. Everyone stops using the mirrors as soon as they pass their test, unless they are parking.

He won't getting it straight till he is about thirty years old or has a kid.
 
DferPolarBear said:
I've called Luiz 'Loopy Lu' since his first match for us. Here we go Loopy Lu, Here we go Loopy li. He is passionate when he plays and loses all composure and wants to save the goals make the tackles win the headers and score the goals. He reminders me of a nine year old playing football, chasing the ball all over the pitch.

I think it stems from a self confidence bordering on arrogance. He plays in an elongated bubble. His vision is exceptional forwards, but he simply doesn't look to the side or back enough. He is like an experienced driver and no longer uses the mirrors. Everyone stops using the mirrors as soon as they pass their test, unless they are parking.

He won't getting it straight till he is about thirty years old or has a kid.
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Ha ha, great analysis Dfer. I was much the same, and coincidently had my 1st kid when I turned 30 !! Double whammy.
 
There's no debate to be had on this one. Use the law of averages.

Luiz is capable of insanely brilliant moments, which when balanced with his moments of insanely crap moments makes him very average. End of.

If barca want to pay us 23m or whatever was being touted, we should bite their hands off, 'specially after that disgraceful tackle. He may have the hair, but has neither the defensive reliability of puyol or the range of passing of gullit. And as they say, better to be master of one than jack of all.
 
Drogs said:
dunno what you've been watching over the past couple of months then? He's been class in midfield. I do agree though, he is a liability at times and I would happily sell if we could make a profit on what we paid.

As for Ba, what has he done that's so bad? He's not being given a consistent run in the first XI yet due to an inept donkey having cemented the number 9 role despite being utter garbage.
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wouldnt day he has been "class" but it certainly has given you something different, hes an Average CB as we all know
 
Luiz is one of our best players. He sadly has a stereotype that he now can't break out of - being a nut case. However, despite occasional lapses in concentration, we would be insane to let him go. Yes he has flaws, but he's a better defender than Cahill by a long way (Cahill is very very average, something many Chelsea fans - and other fans adamantly refuse to realize), has all the leadership qualities of Terry, and offers a lot more in the way of effective team play than Ivanovic (despite not being as solid). As far as I'm concerned, anyone that thinks we should sell Luiz, or believes he isn't good enough, is stuck in the one-player-is-to-blame-for-everything mindset that blinds many fans. It's the same mindset that everyone now has for Torres. While I refuse to defend Torres, our set up makes Ba look very average as well. Ultimately, the way we use our formation would not benefit any striker. While on this tangent, I'd also like to draw peoples attention to the fact Ivanovic single-handedly knocked us out of the Carling Cup against Swansea, and has had numerous errors recently - however, Luiz has one misplaced pass in a match and everyone complains that he's always the one to blame. I understand it's very easy to like certain players more so than others, however, people are now only looking for the bad in Luiz's game, and not the many positives, and ignore the failures in others games (Mata, Lampard, Oscar, Ba all included).
 
I think Luiz adds passion to the team always trying his hardest and so dedicated and for me that counts for a lot. Ok he maybe a bit of a liability at times (especially when at the back), but so are all players none are perfect.
I don't think we can judge him on his recent antic though as how do we know what happened previously to that, or was anything said. Brentford were being quite aggressive in their way of play and the ref was letting a lot of things go that he shouldn't. Including Luiz in our favour. Yes Luiz shouldn't have done what he did, but we have to ask ourselves why he did it, especially that late in the game when he had nothing to gain from it.
 
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