Lets have a sensible discussion aboout what is happening

Can we keep this nice, but I am a bit at a loss about what is happening with our team. I have a few ideas that I wondered if we can discuss ...nicely.

Before lockdown we were playing lovely football. We had a hiccup after Wells went away, but that seemed over and we were unbeaten in 6 . We were 6 points of the playoff. Lockdown happened.

When we came back I sensed that the "team" had felt that getting to the playoffs was beyond us/not desired.
If you look back over the discussions of FFP this was always going to be our most financial restrained season.. as 3 seasons ago we recorded our biggest loss, and at the start of next season that loss goes from the calculation. I believe a financial decision was made not to chase a playoff place (and to me that made sense)

We let go Pugh (1 more game and he would have got a new contract), we made no big effort to keep Hall. We renewed short-term Hugill, Clarke, Amos and Rangel and longterm Cameron. We seem to go into the lockdown without Wallace. We have only once filled out bench, with players and Bettache and Gubbins are straight from the u23. I believe the u23 team were furloughed to save money

Ontop of that Eze and BOS both seem as they are playing within themselves, as though they are protecting their assests and their chance of a move. Warburton is giving time to some of the youngsters and some are rising to the chance Kakay and possibly Shodipo.
Bettache, Masterson, Oteh and loanee Clarke are getting game time. The first two are OK...but Oteh is not cutting the mustard and Clarke played better yesterday (are Clarke and Amos makeweights in a Eze deal?)

Is Warburton just playing out the season as cheaply as he can. The team know they are playing out time and so there is no desire or cohesion.

And why shouldn't they....


So next season.... We need strikers. We need a defence. We need a creator (once BOS and Eze have gone).
Have we any chance at all?

I actually think we have, because I think we will spend a little bit of money and I think if we stay with Warburton, he will create something.
I do not think getting Ainsworth from Wycombe will solve anything...It has taken Ainsworth years to get to where he has got...

Discussion please

 

It is as if during lockdown our players have failed to properly keep fit. Maybe the club really was convinced the season was ending early and heavily curtailed training.

There is also now what seems an apathy to the play, if not the club itself, reflected in many of the players performances.

It is horrible to watch, especially when we all know what they are capable of when they are properly switched on. BoS and Eze have delighted us with some truly magnificent performances this season.

I hope MW gets the opportunity to build something for next season. For me, this season has ended. After yesterday, I just can’t face watching any more of the same.

 

Hard to fathom what's going on at present. The fixtures were actually kind to us in terms of continuing the momentum we had going yet against relegation candidates we've basically given up and rolled over. In a way the win at Boro was very timely as I really can't see us getting anything from the remaining games.

I do hope we aren't going to see any of our better players go for peanuts out of desperation for cash. I think it would be difficult to persuade players of our ambition if there's a sell off in the summer especially with another relegation battle more likely than Play-off challenge. We need to have some proper scouting in place or it'll be difficult to match even this season's effort without a decent striker and couple of defenders to shore up what may be a very inexperienced squad...

 

I think a lot of it has stemmed from hoo’s & les saying it was too soon to start playing & the players wasn’t prepared & we can see that watching the games so far!
Squad needs another overhaul again & ditch both spurs lads & no Beth I really hope they not makeweight for Eze,
A lot of talk going about warbs is his time up, I hope not & shouldn’t be discussed at present, no point keep changing managers every year as it won’t work & that’s been proved, stick with him & start building with a mix of our good youngsters & senior pro’s, can see 2/3 going in transfer window & we’ve got to be wise in buying, onwards & upwards

 

Because I and many others paid for season tickets that we then transferred to QPR+ passes to help keep the club that pays their wages afloat in difficult times. The least we should expect is effort and the fact that the manager cannot get that from his squad is a damning indictment.

 

I think we need to stick with MW.
However, once the season has finished, and the loanees returned to their clubs, the players that MW wants to keep should be asked if they are prepared to commit to the next season. Those that don't sell, or let go. Pugh and .Hall leaving hasn't helped and I am more disappointed with Hall than Pugh but can understand why he did what he did. Due to location, I am rarely at HQ, so have not seen the loanees in the flesh, but taking ion board what others have said maybe don't ask back (except Hugill) who I think with the right service is a decent Championship player. if only we could find a decent defensive organiser and leader and a midfield general that leads by example (or find a time machine and take Hill and Derry back 20 years). We also need someone to gee up the players......or put an arm around if they are having a bad game.
I think playing behind closed doors is affecting different players and team. Could this b something for the next season as well? And if so, why would a club spend for example £20 mill on Eze only for him not to be able to play.
We need stability - both in managers seat and on the pitch. I think MW has probably lost more players than any other QPR manager in recent years and has had his hands tied.
I hope that the players and staff are looking at other clubs in dubious predicaments and realise that they are at a club that can help them reach the next stage, only it isn't just ability, it is application and a willingness to put themselves on the line that will get them there. SLF should be hammering this home, bought from Hayes, sent to Turkey and could have left us without becoming the player he was until he started to show Gerry Francis he had what it took.
As much as I hate losing, and seeing QPR lose again, IF the players have given it their all then I am not so disappointed but not putting too much effort in just stinks. If some were on performance pay yesterday the club would have received quite a bit back from most of them.

 

I think there's a lot in what you say but I can't see why they didn't go for the Play offs. Every single one of our games was/is winnable with the exception of the season finale at West Brom. That might have got us into the Play offs although we would not have come close to winning them. All the other likely contenders have far better squads man for man than than we do . Had we done so, we would have been a far more attractive proposition for a young player keen to develop before he was ready to move to the Prem. I would like to think that our Board does try to make logical decisions . I just think they are totally inept.

My nagging suspicion is that this was not a tactical decision at all but rather one forced on them because the lockdown has had a drastic effect on the fortunes of our owners. They came out of lockdown intent on disposing of anything they could and thus robbing Warburton of the opportunity to change things around by dropping players who were not performing. Who on earth talks about pushing on for the Play Offs then leaves us with one forward and a replacement who has struggled to score in League 2 as cover. Having umpteen wingers is all well and good provided you have players available in the box who can make use of the chances created. No doubt we will hear soon enough but 3 months without income should not be underestimated. The Club is in dire financial straits.

Warburton should not be dismissed. He has done well with the resources at his disposal. Whether the Board sees it that way, who knows. Whether he wants to stay, your guess is as good as mine. My hope is that having survived this season and with the shackles loosened (so that we can actually buy the players we want next season instead of borrowing them) we will start to develop a team that will eventually challenge for promotion within the next couple of years.

 

Additionally, to the comment I wrote, and news that Air Asia is in trouble, maybe that is having an impact (whether now or in future thinking) of how the club is run.

 

I don't think the answer is to get rid of Warburton. He's had the least money to spend than almost any other manager in the division. He's done pretty much as well as our previous managers have since we came down from the Prem, and they had parachute monies.

I think one of our best hopes for not getting relegated next season is for competing clubs to start feeling financial pain like Wigan. Bit negative but realistic

 

Like it or like it not we will be operating under tight financial constraints this coming season

There will be no match day revenue for the early part of the 20/21 season, and the club was already expecting tighter revenues for the coming season than the current season before COVID crashed their plans

I'm also certain that player sale income will not match our expectation as fans - many cĺubs will be facing the same issues as us and I suspect that bar a handful of top clubs, most will have to reign in transfer plans. The flip side of course is that there may be some relative bargains to be had

I very much doubt that Warburton will be given more than a small fraction of what we'd like as a transfer budget - whatever player sales generate

As I've said on a couple of previous threads, the fact that We've given new contracts to 16 of the U23 squad suggests that we will be looking to bring quite a few youngsters through ie points to potentially fewer loanees and permanent transfers

I'm worried about the coming season - I really don't see us doing any better than a relegation dogfight like the likes of Eze, BOS and possibly Manning move on

Downbeat? Possibly

Realistic? I think so

 

At the restart after good form before Covid, we had a 9 game opportunity to make the play-offs, a small chance of promotion to the PL was there, remote yes, but perhaps a better one than we'll have in the 46 games that will face us in the seasons ahead.

We appear, by letting 2 regular starters go, 1 the Captain the day before the restart, by not having the squad as fit and ready as our opponents look to have been, by furloughing the U23's so we cannot fill our Bench, and by not bringing in cover for our 1 remaining qualified striker, to have not taken the opportunity, let it slide, maybe for sound financial reasons but also maybe because of a lack of ambition.

For me correct or not, we stink of lack of ambition, throughout the Club, throughout the support, and no doubt throughout the Players and Management, Coaching team. If the people that direct the Club won't go for it, why should the players. There was a chance here , we didn't take it. Perhaps we didn't ask for more funding to attempt it from our owners already supposedly putting in a million a month. All very sensible probably, but not at all inspiring.

 

Thanks for starting a polite discussion Beth. Hope it lasts!

The problem is the many things we do not know.

1. The effect of CoVid19 on the fortunes of the owners.
2. The desire / commitment of the owners to the future of QPR.
3. The target that MW was given for this season.
4. Will there be anything in the kitty for MW to spend in the summer?
5. How much will Eze and BOS go for?
6. Etc etc.

Interestingly, the one piece of objective, solid evidence we do have is the acquisition of the Cranford site. I've held on to that as a green shoot of hope amongst the slurry of doom and gloom since it's hard to imagine they would have done that if things were as bad as some are making out.

Have renewed my ST and hope to be back at HQ at next season's start and hope to see some decent footie. As we know, it's the hope that kills!

 

I'm on about lack of ambition. It annoys me that we repeatedly talk about how much Eze and BOS will go for, when we should be looking to build a team around them.

But then Sir Les is repeatedly quoted building Eze up as a future PL star and that we will of course sell him at the right price. Maybe he is just trying to raise that price, but for me it must put additional, unnecessary pressure on Eze himself, it smacks of lack of ambition by the Club, and we'd be better off if he stayed mummm. Clubs wanting Eze will come knocking anyway, or would have done before this disaster of a restart, where his form seems to have dropped off a cliff.

 

I suspect that a deal for Eze to leave has already been done hence the current form

The reality is our owners are highly unlikely to be willing to keep having to put the same level of cash into the club to cover on going losses and fund a new training complex

Of course I may be wrong and we'll go on Citeh style spending spree instead.....

 

Neither of them are a secret. Eze in particular would be getting great offers no matter what our form or financial situation. It really doesn’t take a lot to build a competitive side at this level of the money is spent wisely. My bigger concern is what Warburton will spend it on as his track record on that front isn’t great at all.

 

Agreed.
Sadly, it wouldn’t surprise me to see our owner continue on their merry way and do squat next season, thus exposing their lack of desire to invest in the club.

They threw silly money at the club in the early years and l tend to think they have now grown tired of the club and their 'plaything' has become a chore for them. There has always been a lot of talk but little has eventuated into reality.

Hope l’m wrong.

 

Hmmm, I think it’s easy to say they are tired of the club and they won’t be investing any more. The purchase of the land vs extending Harlington says that isn’t so.

However purse strings have definitely tightened, and it has been a good decision to do so from a business point of view (especially after the kids in a sweet shop spending that ruined us). I do wonder sometimes if Bhatia and the Mittal family would be more interested in the club if it was better financially balanced.

As for our form over this 9-game period. Personally, I would feel ashamed if I had only nine performances to give and delivered results like these.
It does feel like the players, management and board have just given it up as a bad ending and want to get over it. Not good enough I’m afraid.

Pugh I understand. Hall was a weird one - our captain and leader(?) not even seeing the season out - not sure I’ve heard of any other club do such a thing. And probably not an inspiring thing for the rest of the team to see. None of the loanees have particularly caught fire (except Wells who was then bought). So not keen on any of them. I think it will be another fresh start to next season, with some decent players available from other clubs if we have our scouting team on their toes and doing things right with MW/SLF and Hoos. If that doesn’t happen, I fear another below average season coming on.

On MW - I definitely don’t think he needs to be replaced. He’s had a reasonable, if inconsistent, season; with very little space to manoeuvre.
But we need to see a little more from everyone if we are going to move positively forward with some good football (which has been our highlight before the lockdown) and a positive move up the table to at least top 10.

 

On a micro scale, we can all relate to this.

How many times have you researched an item, maybe even saved for it if expensive and finally bought it?

A few months down the line, bored with it!

Let's hope not but you could be right.

 

Fair comment, mate.
l think MW has his work cut out for him.
I just hope he gets some assistance to replace those leaving.
From the little l know of him, l tend to think he was a good match for us.

 

Since our demise from being top dog in London in the 90s, we became a developing and selling club with some progress and occasional backward steps too.

That pattern was significantly interrupted with the big spending spree after 2012 and it looks like SLF has spent three years trying to put that right.

I thought this was going to be our leanest year with the possibility for some judicious spending this summer. We will have to wait and see.

Assuming Villa get relegated, it will be very interesting for us to see if their fortunes follow a similar pattern. They ought to unless they bounce back at first try AND stay there which we failed to do.