Grand Prix thread LENOVO GRAND PRIX DE FRANCE 2022

LENOVO GRAND PRIX DE FRANCE 2022

53 laps of the 5.842-kilometre Circuit Paul Ricard in Le Castellet

22nd July Practice 1 13:00 - 14:00
22nd July Practice 2 16:00 - 17:00
23rd July Practice 3 12:00 - 13:00
23rd July Qualifying 15:00 - 16:00
24th July Race 14:00 - 16:00

All times are UK times

Poll closes before Quali.

 

so.....

historically this track has 3 things about it for me.

a) smooth and flowing rather than muscle the kerbs.

b) likened to silverstone so that should hint at a redbull advantage. high lateral loas and stress on tyres going through high speed corners

c) the slow tehcncial bits are actually high traction requirements so ferrari are not out of it.

this year:

a) merc are bring upgrades. there are some images. but its about engine power for me. 3rd best car still??

b) ferrari have exploding engines. all very exciting. they have clearly the best quali pace at times but are harder on tyres.

c) Red bull have the best top end speed and are better on thier tyres.

My pick is therefore Leclerc pole and Verstappen win.

Hamilton and russell to finally have an actual Duel on track for the final podium spot. Perez and sainz to **** up somewhere.

 

I will stick my neck out a bit and put one of the Mercs in second place, on the podium. If that happens the second half of the season will be very different. No idea how much the floor flex regulation will impat Red Bull. Nor do I know how fair the clamp down on the flexing is.

 

Do those new floor regs come in next race? Not been keeping up much. Been hectic lately

 

After the summer break, Belgium.

 

Will that be something else for Horner to have a meltdown over

 

Auto Sport are reporting that at least six teams are ready to chalenge the floor changes. Ferrari,Red Bull,Alpha Taurii,Haas,Williams & Alfa Romeo.

 

The FIA announced last week that it planned to introduce a raft of measures for next year aimed at eradicating the porpoising problems that some teams have suffered from.

These included a raising of the floor edges and diffuser throat - something that will have a big impact on car designs.

But its actions have not gone down well in the paddock, with at least five teams understood to be unhappy about what has been proposed.

Some outfits are now putting pressure on FIA president Mohammed Ben Sulayem to water down the initial proposals and come up with a compromise solution that will not require a fundamental floor rethink.

While the FIA is insistent that its actions are necessary on safety grounds, Horner is much more sceptical about the situation – and reckons that momentum behind changes is being triggered by Mercedes, which has struggled with porpoising for much of the season.

Speaking to Sky, Horner said that planned changes to be introduced at the Belgian Grand Prix, which include a flexi-floor clampdown, were of no concern to his team.

But he was adamant that it was wrong for the FIA to push forward with the kind of expansive floor changes it has proposed for 2023.

“I think the problem is what they’re looking at as a remedy for next year,” he said.

“The directive [for Spa], it’s neither here nor there for us. I think there’s an awful lot of lobbying to change the regulations significantly for next year so a certain team can run its car lower and benefit from that concept.

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Mercedes has struggled with porpoising this year

Photo by: Steven Tee / Motorsport Images

“It’s a very late point in the year to be doing this. I think the president is doing the right thing, he’s collating all of the information, and hopefully a sensible solution can be found. Because it’s too late in the day for fundamental regulation changes, which something like that would be.”

Horner believes the FIA’s intervention goes too far because Mercedes can dial out any excessive bouncing by simply raising its rideheight.

“Just run the car higher: it’s easy,” added Horner. “We haven’t had a problem all year. There’s only one team that’s had a big problem.

“We’ve got some of the most talented engineers in the world in this sport, and I can almost guarantee you, if we come back next year, there would probably be no cars with issues.

“With the last few races, it’s looked OK. Here it looks OK. So I think what we don’t want to do is knee-jerk into an overreaction that could have fundamental impacts on next year’s cars.”

 

As part of the FIA’s intervention on safety grounds to limit bouncing following driver complaints, it outlined recently the measures it was going to implement.

As well as enforcement of an Aerodynamic Oscillation Metric (AOM) and a clampdown on flexi floors from the Belgian Grand Prix, it also decided that changes to the technical regulations were required for 2023.

Following discussions in the Technical Advisory Committee (TAC) after the Austrian GP, the FIA stated that it would mandate a 25mm raising of the floor edges, a raising of the underfloor diffuser throat, more stringent lateral floor deflection tests and the use of a more accurate sensor to measure bouncing.

Teams are currently awaiting more detailed rule proposals from the FIA on the matter, which should include the specific measurements and regulations that the governing body wants to put in place for next year.

But the series of measures has, however, already drawn a backlash from teams who are unhappy about the extent of the expensive changes – which they feel are unnecessary with the porpoising problem appearing to be more under control in recent races.

It is understood that a core team of outfits – believed to include Ferrari, Red Bull, Alfa Romeo, Haas and Williams – are pushing for an alternative solution, with some questioning whether or not the FIA's claims about it being a safety matter are legitimate.

It has long been a part of the sport’s governance structure that, for issues that involve safety, the FIA can change rules without the need for any support from the teams.

Article 1.2.2 of F1’s Technical Regulations states: “Any changes made by the FIA for safety reasons may come into effect without notice or delay.”

It is understood the unhappy teams have begun lobbying FIA president Mohammed Ben Sulayem to argue that the changes to the technical rules for 2023 are not a genuine safety matter so should not be allowed to go ahead.
Sources with good knowledge of the situation have suggested that there is even support from eight teams – which would be enough for a ‘super majority’ rule change to be ratified through the normal F1 Commission processes – for a compromise solution that is a less extreme raising of the floor.

It is suggested that teams could accept more minor tweaks – such as the floor edge being raised by around 10mm – as that would not require such a fundamental rethink of car designs at this late stage.


What is unclear is what avenues the teams have to fight the changes if the FIA stands firm and refuses to back down from its decision to go for its more extreme version.

One factor that cannot be completely ruled out is a veto from Ferrari, with the Italian squad having retained its right to block specific rule changes as part of the new Concorde Agreement that came in to place from 2021.

While it is thought unlikely the veto would be able to stop rule changes going through on genuine safety grounds, the debate over whether or not the changes fall under that remit means the situation is not crystal clear.

A number of teams are especially fearful that the scope of the floor changes being introduced by the FIA are playing in to rival Mercedes’ hands – and the tweaks both this season and for 2023 are being framed in such a way that they could benefit the German car manufacturer.


There are also concerns that Mercedes has over-egged the porpoising problems that it has struggled to get on top of just so the FIA is forced to step in and change the rules.

One team boss said: “The changes are so extreme for 2023 because Mercedes claim that they have found 40% more downforce for next year, so they have urged the FIA to act. If Mercedes have genuinely done that, then you may as well hand them the world championship now.”

The FIA is insistent, however, that its actions are only motivated on ensuring the current generation of cars are safe.

A statement from the governing body last week said: “It is the responsibility and the prerogative of the FIA to intervene for safety matters, and the reason the regulations allow such measures to be taken is precisely to allow decisions to be taken without being influenced by the competitive position each team may find themselves in.”

 

My biggest concern here is that these car regs took years to develop and simulate in an effort to enable close following.

In short order after one driver holds his back and its all out the window and changes made that I doubt they truly have simmed.

 

I am not a doctor nor a qualified engineer. We know that Lewis was being subjected to 10G with the bouncing. A very low ride height may be causing significant shocks but not many. Drivers may be able to cope with no apparent consequence. I guess the impact long term may be apparent spinal damage in later life. If so, that would be a legitimate concern and the changes would be legitimate.
I really would like to see more testing allowed for the teams this winter. The lack of testing last winter has seen the concerns emerge late.

 

I just think they have to be cautious and set the list and let the teams engineer their solutions.

That merc is a pig. It's continues to be a pig that they are managing.

Drivers are drivers and just like.most other sports people they will harms themselves in the long term for the wins so yes they have to be protected from themselves.

But.... that's no reason to throw put rule changes and cause huge change again cos.some have not got it quite right.

 

I agree, I am only guessing the reasons for the FIA rule change. Significant change, if needed, should come next year and some decent testing allowed so those teams disadvantaged by the changes, like Red Bull perhaps, have an opportunity to get a good result. It can't only favour Mercedes.

 

Designing the body parts so they flex to give better aero is against the spirit of the rules, they all know this from flexi-wings a decade ago.

 

I agree .

Much as it pains me to say ANYTHING positive involving Horner .

New rules were introduced , some “ Got them “ some did not .

Why should those that got it right , and it’s more than RBR , be handicapped ?

If it is Merc complaining , this is the team that won 7 WDC IN A ROW

& 8 WCC IN A ROW .

My message to Merc = Raise the ride height for now , heads down , shut up , and figure it out , we know you have the brains to do it .

I hate the fact that Toto is appearing just as bad as Horner .

FIA , just F off .

 

First flash of pace from HAM but it’s half a second at least off of not more with the tyre compound.

 

Latifi goes 7th

9 tenths off Ferrari on same compound


EDIT Albon 6th just 0.6 off the Ferrari

 

Unless exact measurement specifications are in place there is no rule to enforce. Changing mid season is a hard ask on the floor. I get for 2023 it may well be a reasonable ask.

 

Verstappen is an obvious choice for the win but Tyre deg may play a part and Red Bull has problems in that department sometimes. Going to gamble on a Le Clerc win.

 

Circumventing the rules to produce 'moveable aero' goes against the spirit of the rules, this is something that has been happening, and rules against for at least 4 decades.