last 20 years

In the last 20 odd years i think we can all agree that Liverpool haven't achieved the success that we had been used to, although still being one of the most successful clubs in the country over this time.
What I'd like to point out is that in this time we've had to face not one but two of probably the best united sides ever, the best chelsea side ever and the best arsenal side ever. Do you think thats had any effect on our relative lack of success? would we have achieved more if we hadn't had the misfortune to face all these great teams in a fairly short space of time or was it just down to our decline? Thoughts?
Cheers

YNWA

 

It was down to our decline imo, the teams you mention were great teams and we may not have won the league even if our team was better during the period. To me what has been hard is that we have hardly challenged for the league.

What we have won has been great and won in spectacular fashion giving us great moments as supporters. One of my big regrets was the 2nd CL final, Milan were there for the taking and we were too respectful of them. If we had attacked from the start we could have slaughtered them.

 

Afternoon,

Maybe a bit of both but I'd say mainly due to your own decline.

As for top teams, I don't think your record against them has been too bad. The reason for Liverpool not winning things has been due to dropping points against seemingly lesser teams imo.

 

I agree.
Some of it has to do with money.
When we were at the peak of our powers,we weren't marketed right,and when the influx of tv momey came in we were still stuck in the stone-age.Man United however exploited it and fair play for them for doing so.As their aggressive marketing style is the blue-print for everyone else.
However since 2007,and this is the only thing Hicks and Gillett did right.They brought Liverpool kicking and screaming into the 21st century when it came to sponsorship.However they didn't have the money to make use of it.
However John Henry and FSG have the money and the expertise and the marketing company to build on the foundations commercially that Hicks and Gillett laid and so far they have with some of the commercial deals they have brought in.
When the stadium up-grade/new stadium happens,something that John Henry is determined to implement,things will be even better.but its one step at a time.However it may take a Ferguson retirement before we rule the roost again.However I hope that we're on the verge of it and primed for it when he does retire.

 

I agree with this. They have been good sides you've come up against but there haven't been many seasons where they've all been around at once and not you've still managed to finish 2nd twice in the premier league era. There has been a serious decline of talent in the liverpool side since the 80's and we're only just starting to see the rebuild now. I think it could be a few more years before your fully ready to challenge for the title again.
Unfortunately the only squad i can see getting severely weaker in the time is Chelsea with their ageing stars, but Roman will continue spending if he doesn't get bored. Arsenal, United and tottenham to some extent are already looking to maintain the high standards over the coming years by investing in young talent. I don't want to sound like a WUM but i find it hard to see where Liverpool become a dominant force in english football again.

 

There's no real secret to becoming a dominant force, it just takes the right manager followed by 3 or 4 of the right signings and a good youth development so that there are ready replacements for older players. So maybe that is the secret then!!!

 

Aye, but there used to be normally just a few teams trying to buy these 'right players' now there could be 6 from our league alone. It also won't help that some of these teams might be more attractive the liverpool. The youth system is also good on paper, but a lot harder to maintain in real life. The manager you already have, its just how long it takes is the question.

 

My Sentiments exactly m8!! I remember 04-05 season I believe? We were some 30 points off the top spot or something incredible like that.

 

Jezz.
Good management is what speeds things up.
Poor management slows things down.
Example Man United won the league with lets be fair a far poorer squad than Man City's.Why?, good management and Mancini is a moron.

 

Yes mancini is a moron, but the fact remains that rome wasn't built in a day... and it required lot's of cash.

 

Down to a lot of things.

The club had stood still while the likes of United grew and finally overtook.

It's not untill Benitez arived that we got out of neutral.

Having said that we probably should of won the league in 96'. If we had a bigger squad (more money) then I think we would of.

It hasn't helped that the likes of Chelsea have bought success, and City look set to do the same.

But we have to sort our own **** out before we can look at the externals. Sort your own house out.

 

The best Arsenal side was in the 30s I believe.

Its all down to your decline. In all honesty Liverpool never expected to decline and thought they would remain at the top regardless.

You were far to arrogant and other clubs ( United ) took full advantage of this.

 

The invincibles would beat them 80 - 0, how Wenger failed to win the CL with that team I'll never know

 

Evan as a united supporter, that team had some of my all time favourite players in it :d

 

Somebody pinch me quick..............KPR just said something non derogitory (sp ) about Sir Alex !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Let the world get back to normal.. quick KPR say something bad I can't handle this

 

I was using it as an example and its where I feel Kenny can push Liverpools progression a few steps ahead quicker than some may think.
Under Mancini,I honestly cannot see City winning the title,as he's a poor manager.Liverpool have a chance of getting where they want to be because of this down to good management.
Chelsea's managerial position is a revolving door and there is no stability.So long term success is a non entity,and they aren't going to be a force for much longer.
Arsenal won't win it due to Wenger and his stubborness.
Redknapp is a clown.Spurs challenging for top four.... maybe...Champions...There is more chance of Everton getting into Europe.

 

This is probably the best thread of the day by a long way.

There comes a time in the life of men and football clubs when the tide turns against you. Decisions are made for the best reasons based upon previous experience but the consequences of them are unforseen. That is what happened to Liverpool. Only when they have worked themselves out can a new paradigm (model) be created.

It happens to all clubs. A few years after winning the European Cup, United were relegated. Now I'm sure that was not their intention and their managerial and player decisions were never intended to realise that conclusion. Two decisions, made seperately, came together to give United the impetus to then go on and be very successful: (1) the development of their youth team (Ihave no idea who took that decision) and (2) the appointment of Ferguson - even though he was within hours/days of being sacked. However, within the club they must have wondering why they could not get it right.

The same kind of things have happened to Liverpool. However 2 events greatly effected liverpool's decline. Hysel, which prevented liverpool from securing an unprecedented European record and Hillsborough which knocked the gutts out of the club. Whilst we have achieved some level of success and had some great sides we have never truly achieved what we could have done - but at least we didn't get relegated (sorry KE7).

Now I believe that we do have the right conditions to start a new chapter with dedicated owners, a strong management team, the basis of a good squad and a blossoming youth policy. With Chelsea, City and Arsenal all facing serious problems with their squads, success for Liverpool could be closer than many pundits expect.

As for United, I believe that the tide has turned again. That does not mean that they will fall away dramatically but I do think that they will find it harder to rebuild than they have in the past.

Call it fate if you wish. I believe that like all successful organisations it is not until the the things that helped build that success have gone past their 'sell by date' that clubs come to the realisation that they have to start again. Unfortunately the more successful you have been the harder it appears to recognise the signs.

 

Dave.
Excellent post.
I think if we have a successful season in the coming season we could be where Man United were in 1992.On the verge of something great.A new look side,with hunger and desire and the belief that its all coming together.
I said numerous times that I believe Kenny will turn Liverpool into champions within 3 years.I'm sticking to that.

 

my opinion is split over the periods in question.

1. in the 90s we had under evans all of the requirements necessary to win the league except for one, professionalism. Lets face it man for man we had a very good team under evans but those players (like fowler) were not very professional compared to the utd players were they? they blew their own chances and evans hadn't the metal to deal with it, which is why he got the push.

2. Things ogt so bad at the end of that evans period that when houllier came in he had a lt of rebuilding to do. In 2001 Arsneal were by far and away a better side than us. Houllier signed very poorly at times and his team refletected his negative approach. 2001 was a great year and got us back on the map... houllier took advantage of a top 4 CL qualification expansion and it was this that gave the platform for rafa.

3. Mid 2000s, we were totally trahs under houllier in 2004 but scraped 4th. rafa took over and actually signed decently, alonso.. we won two trophies and could well have kicked on with a team in 2007/07 that was looking very competitive but rafa lost it, the yanks g&H were doing it on borrowed money and it imploded.

The common theme in this has to be a lack of professionalism and managers who have just made mad buys that everyone could see were pointless... we wasted SO MUCH MONEY!

I would hope that with the strucutre of director of football and manager as it stands today (comolli seems to have actual control of scouting etc in a real sense) that mad stupid buys are eliminated.. I HOPE. I think a dose of reality needs to set in though.... do we have the professionalism to REALLY challenge? we'll see.

 

oh and beofr ei forget on professionalsim.

1. Carragher is well known for leaking team news to mates before games , eg league cup line outs.... this has gone on for years and a blind eye always shown to it.

2. gerrard has strolled about in games for a long time now but is not called on it and we see the same approach taken in games we should be winning by others.

so this lack of professionalism that DEMANDS week in and week out hard work on the pitch when game time comes is what i looking for now... suarez speaks of this for example.. kuyt understnads it.

But say we did win a league, could we sustain it? would it be a one year thing then the hunger goes? this is year on year constant demand for the uptmost on match day.