1. Log in now to remove adverts - no adverts at all to registered members!

Kenny Dalglish unfinished business.!

Discussion in 'Liverpool' started by LuisDiazgamechanger, Jun 29, 2011.

  1. LuisDiazgamechanger

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    38,592
    Likes Received:
    7,297
    :emoticon-0103-cool:Kenny Dalglish was the last manager that won the title for Liverpool.
    Since the EPL began , Liverpool were unable to win the title, but Dalglish won it with
    Blackburn.
    After Dalglish resigned, Liverpool had four managers that had opportunities to win the
    title, but were unable to do so.Managers since:
    1.Graeme Souness- I think Liverpool's decline started from here, the pressure of keeping
    Liverpool in the top of the table was too much for him and had to resign.
    2.Roy Evans- Very close to winning it, but the defence let him down, in particular the
    Goal keeper.
    3.Gerard Houllier- Also got close to winning it, but something was missing
    4.Rafael Benitez- Very close to winning it too, his stubborness let him down in particular
    'rotational policy'.
    5.Kenny Dalglish- He can do it again,and would be the first manager to win the :emoticon-0150-handspremiership for Liverpool.The only regret is that is second coming was delayed.
    Note: Managers that spent less that a season are not included.:emoticon-0103-cool:
     
    #1
  2. Bozz

    Bozz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2011
    Messages:
    3,000
    Likes Received:
    36
    going by the state of the league last season i'd say that it's easier to win the league at the moment then it has been before. On saying this Man City & Chelsea are looking to improve which could make next season very difficult, I like the cut of Villas-Boas' jib, he has already played a blinder by getting di matteo in as assistant coach, it's now down to whether or not Abramovic will invest time as well as money in to his new manager
     
    #2
  3. terrifictraore

    terrifictraore Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2011
    Messages:
    5,275
    Likes Received:
    902
    reasonable post till I read "rotational policy"!

    What about zonal marking?
     
    #3
  4. Muppetfinder General

    Muppetfinder General Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2011
    Messages:
    3,576
    Likes Received:
    722
    I have to agree. Are we about to go through the cliches again?

    Name me a manager who isn't stubborn? Fergie still won't talk to the BBC; Wenger still won't spend; Hodgson didn't change his style in 35 years; Mourinho...need I go on?
     
    #4
  5. BringBackfootie

    BringBackfootie New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2011
    Messages:
    6,018
    Likes Received:
    52
    Folks,

    Hearing lots of reasons for failing that season. Squad depth. Loack of it. Lucas was nowhere near ready back then, not for us i a title race, needed someone of quality to fill in for Stevie and Nando and H&G, well, we know the story, that and we could have done better with the potentials we bought then too.

    An extra 1 or 2 players with a little quality, needed not be anything like WC, and we'd have crossed the line. That would have been enough for us to get what was basically 3 or 4 goals, that would have done it.

    You can point to this or that, but in effect we failed because we drew a few 0 0s too many 2 losses, defending? 2 losses, defending? 2 losses, defending? 2 losses!
     
    #5
  6. KingPepeReina.

    KingPepeReina. Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2011
    Messages:
    5,341
    Likes Received:
    0
    I agree with your points to some extent.Souness had a winning formula when he took over,but he changed everything far too quickly.He should have blended experienced heads with new signings instead of getting rid of the old gaurd all at once and introducing new signings.He could have gradually let them go_Okay in his defence Barnes and Rush and Whelan,key cogs in the Anfield machine started picking up frequent injuries,but that could have more to do with Souness' training methods that caused frequent ankle injuries,the biggest problem at the time.However his treatment of Peter Beardsley,Ray Houghton and Steve Staunton was nothing short of disgraceful.
    Roy Evans created one of the most exciting Liverpool sides since 1987/88.However this side lacked something the current Liverpool side does have and thats mental toughness.It had a soft underbelly thats similar to the one Arsenal and Spurs currently have,something Spurs have nearly always have had.
    There was two Houllier eras.The first one was when he was mean and nasty and he had the side almost in his own image,hard to beat,worked extremely hard and was well drilled and disciplined.It was on the verge of winning the title.Houllier brought Liverpool in the 21st century in terms of atitude,discipline and work-rate and diet.The second era just after he had his health scare was less successful,as I felt that what happened to him was the worst thing that could ever happen to a manager,and I believe its happened to Arsene Wenger is that he went soft.
    He started signing players with the atitude of the ones that he was getting rid of when he first arrived.He also made the mistake of talking too much to the media,something that we were critical of Roy Hodgson for doing.
    Rafa Benitez.Hugely successful in his early spell.I believe that it was growing the beard that started his decline,this might sound strange.However clean shaven Rafa from 2001-2006 was successful.2 La Ligas,Champions League,Uefa Cup and the FA Cup is proof of that.After he grew it,Nothing.He also had a tendency due to his stubborness to fall out with people,and I still believe that the departure of Pako Ayesteran was a key factor in the lack of success.
    His fall out with Xabi Alonso was another issue.I still think that he also let both Florent Sinama Pongolle and Djbrill Cisse go far too early.Maybe he had to under the regime of Hicks and Gillett,but we seriously needed far more fire-power than just Ngog who was an un-tried rookie in Torres' absence.
    His involvement in politics at the club and not concentrating on coaching his main strength was also a factor.Even though,He did at times over-complicate things.He could never find the balance between ''free-flowing'' and ''Rigid''.Both worked to some extent,but both didn't.I'm still finding it hard to believe how a side that lost two games out of 38 weren't crowned champions.Okay the 11 draws was a factor,but thats my point.Some of those draws were un-necessary and were down to Rafa's rigidity at times.
    I believe Kenny has found that balance without even trying.He balances free-flowing with rigidity and a strong back-line.His belief in keeping a disciplined back five is excellent.However he still hasn't got the personel yet to implement this.Rafa did.There is key cogs missing,and these are a deep-lying play maker and an outlet ie a touch-line hugger.
    He needs to have energy and work-rate on one-side and someone that will terrorise the opposition full-back on the other.If Rafa can get that from Albert Riera,who lets be fair is limited.Then Kenny can find someone better.With regards to the deep-lying play maker,Charlie Adam although not Xavi or Xabi Alonso would be a good fit,as he's grown into that role and can play that role,All it is,is tempo setting,controlling the play and slowing it down and is effective in away games.It prevents the side from getting over-run in midfield which seems to happen to Liverpool since Alonsoi left in away games.Liverpool who do the bossing in home games,get bossed in away games.
    Kenny use of Luis Suarez is also excellent,He has a player that unlike Torres is always involved,He drops deep,hustles midfielders and then bombs into the 18 yards box,His awareness of his team-mates is also superb,and the proof of this is the number of assists he has.He would have scored more goals if he had been a little bit more selfish.But his creation return in five months has been excellent.He along with his wonderful endeavour and work-rate has breath-taking skill.
    He makes people sit up and take notice as ForeDeckdave said recently ''Luis Suarez makes the impossible look easy''.Personally I would call it ''Cheek and Genius''.Andy Carroll when he gets fit and has an intense pre-season will be like a new player.He is definitely apart from Didier Drogba both the biggest nuisance and biggest handful in the premiership.If Liverpool can get both the delivery into the box spot on and balls onto his left side,then he's going to cause havoc.
    He's a defenders worst nightmare,as that left foot is unbelievably powerful.He showed against Man City how dangerous it is.He did it without thinking about it.Some players are like that.Dirk Kuyt is lethal when he scores goals with no effort,if he applies effort,he's not as effective.When he just uses pure instinct he's a far better player.
    The signs look good,and are very encouraging,However its still a work in progress,and my opinion that Kenny will turn Liverpool into champions within 3 years still stands.
     
    #6
  7. BringBackfootie

    BringBackfootie New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2011
    Messages:
    6,018
    Likes Received:
    52
    In all of the 11 draws, how many missed chances were there though where maybe a goal should have been scored th echance was put wide over wasted? Quality of finishing can also be a factor. We were denied one win because we were denied a good goal too, the free kick that went straight in without being touched, offside was given.
    Chances went abegging:) in a few of those draws, N'gog was not ready either as you say. Our depth definately let us down, one striker of quality, even the two you mentioned would imo have been enough to push us over the line. I think the players have to take some blame for decisions made in games in those draws
     
    #7
  8. Foredeckdave

    Foredeckdave Music Thread Manager

    Joined:
    May 30, 2011
    Messages:
    19,804
    Likes Received:
    132
    I think Souness has come in for a lot of unfair criticism. One of the reasons for his failure had more to do with the state of the club and his reaction to it. When he left, he left a club that was still mightily strong. As he has said, when he returned as manager things had changed significantly. He was used to opposing players saying "I wish I played for Liverpool". When he returned, he was being told by his own players, "I want to leave".

    I believe that his own character, hard and unforgiving, then led him into a place where it became almost impossible for him to coax the best out of what he'd got. I stand to be corrected and probably will!
     
    #8
  9. Milnermino Lamborini

    Milnermino Lamborini Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2011
    Messages:
    2,270
    Likes Received:
    1,623
    In my opinion it all comes down to management of resources. I struggled to remember Houllier's sides having epic fight backs. Rafa always insisted on 3 things
    Mentaly tea
    Abilly tea
    Koala tea

    During his first season the teams mentality was changed the never say die attitude begun building.Comeback victories begun increasing and we were at our peak during the 08/09 season. Within no time the teams ability started improving what was remaining was the final ingredient i.e. Quality. After 08/09 season all that remained was a quality striker to complement Torres as his injuries were leaving us a bit bare up front. Afterwards the asset stripping begun and it all went downhill from there.
     
    #9
  10. KingPepeReina.

    KingPepeReina. Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2011
    Messages:
    5,341
    Likes Received:
    0
    He had a winning team.However he forgot the things that he was taught as a player.He tried to integrate new players in too quicky,and even then some of his signings were suspect.
    There were players he let go far too early,and the players he brought in were poorer than the ones that he let go_Okay Kenny had to take some of the blame for doing a ''Matt Busby'',by not signing players young enough to serve an ''apprenticeship''.Bob Paisley's success was built on signing players 2 years before they were needed.
    Bob Paisley in 9 years actually built 3 teams.He had the Keegan Toshack era from 1974-1977,He had the Kenny/Dave Johnson era from 1977-1981 and he had the Rush/Dalglish era from 1981-1983,He signed players players such as Craig Johnston,Ronnie Whelan,Ian Rish,Steve Nicol,Mark Lawrenson before they were needed and drafted in when he needed to.
    It was a small evolution,small changes but effective changes.The biggest disruption he had was at the start of the 1981/1982 season was changing the keeper,Bruce Grobelaar didn't have the best of starts,when Liverpool on New Years eve 1981 after a 3-1 defeat at home to Man City were 12th in the league.However he rounded up his troops,and made a decisive decision to take the captaincy away from Phil Thompson and hand to it to Greame Souness and it worked to perfection because following the 3-1 win over Spurs in February 1982,Liverpool won 20 of the remaining 24 league games losing just two to snatch the title.
    Bob had the philosophy of motivating his troops by saying ''Can you keep this lad out of the side,he's after you're place''.''How long can you keep him out''.It actually worked brilliantly with Phil Neal who kept the right back slot away from Steve Nicol until 1985.''Chopsy'' had been signed in 1981 and had to settle for first the left back slot and a place on the bench when in competition with Alan Kennedy who also made way in 1985.
    These are things that weren't done and should've been done.Souness changed too much too quickly,and this was the reason for his demise.
     
    #10

  11. Hash.

    Hash. pure daycent

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2011
    Messages:
    18,043
    Likes Received:
    1,423
    Souness should never have talked to the sun, and had an anti Irish 'cleansing'. Evans was too soft and discipline was non existant(everyone remembers Razor breaking Gods nose at the breakfast table in a Dublin hotel). Houllier wasnt bad but tried to be a new Wenger and signed mainly young French duds. Rafa came very close as we all know but still couldnt see the wood from the trees with regards stubborn tactics, predictable substitutions 66mins, 78min, 89min. Roy was Roy enough said. Kenny has breathed new life and optimism into the club unlike any of the previously named, so lets just wait and see
     
    #11
  12. KingPepeReina.

    KingPepeReina. Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2011
    Messages:
    5,341
    Likes Received:
    0
    Kenny's management style is basically what he was taught as a player from the experienced coaches and managers he worked with,and can be defined in an acronym.
    K.I.S.S or its full title.Keep It Simple Stupid.
    His methods are simple,His tactics are simple.Its back to what Bill Shankly once said ''Football is a simple game made complicated by fools''.
    Those that suggest football has changed a great deal since Kenny was last manager are being incredibly stupid.They say he can't win the league because things have changed signiificantly since 1995.Again this is incorrect.The only thing that has changed is the prices of players.Nothing else has changed since the 1960s.The same footballing philosophys remain the same.Cohesion,work-rate and mental toughness added with flair are the key elements to success.Kenny also applies the old principles he was taught,pass it to the nearest red shirt,get back into position.He still insists on using the five a sides that he himself was taught as a player.He believes in one-two touch passing.He also believes in strikers being the first line of defence.
    To suggest his methods are ancient and won't work in modern football is both stupid and ludicrous.
     
    #12

Share This Page