After watching the Arkle programme the other day (I recorded it) It is a fascinating programme. Would recommend anyone who hasnt seen it to watch it. Arkle was way before my time but watching the programme gave me a glimpse of the beast that he was. I can only compare him to Kauto Star in my era. Surely we will not see horse dominate the chasing division that Kauto did for a long time. 2 Tingle Creeks, 2 Cheltenham Gold Cups & 5 King Georges. An incredible feat by the horse. And they were against some very good horses Denman, Imperial Commander, Beeforsalmon Unfortuantely as mentioned I do not know the true extent of Arkles greatness but still his record is incredible 3 Gold Cups, 2 Hennessys and one of them giving the field a hell of a weight on him aswell a beating a great in Millhouse who at the time, the british thought was unbeatable and was very unlucky to be in the same era as Arkle. Now Flyingbolt a winner of the QMCC, Irish Grand National - one horse I know nothing about except being the second highest rated horse of all time. Unfortunately we never know how good he was as Tom Dreaper never put the 2 together in a race so we never new who was better. The closest we got was once in a gallop over fences at home they were matching stride by stride going at some pace. In timeform ratings the Dreaper two are massvely above Kauto Star 212, 210 & 191 but would the Kauto Star come close to any of the older two and if not in your view would Flyinbolt have beaten the True Great Arkle??
All I know is that when I go to watch Liverpool at home I go into the Arkle just near the ground for some liquid refreshment before and after the game... It's a good pub... Oh, sorry, Arkle the horse....................... Never heard of him................... But we know a man who has...
Woolie, there's just too much déjà vu for many of us here. Really hard to bear the memories of the fantasy nonsense that went on with similar subjects years ago............
To be fair Wooly, it is a good subject, and it deserves a decent debate, but as Swanny has said, it was given a painful flogging by a former member of the other site. It's a pity too.
Is that the only pub in liverpool? every time you hear someone mention a boozer up there it's the Arkle!
I reckon this debate could be had on here now because if it got anywjhere near out of hand Ron would pull the plug immediately if he felt it neecssary. You never know, those of you still suffering from trauma might actually find it quite therapeutic to debate it without the monster of Greenford weighing in.
I remember starting a riot with this thread. There are plenty more. Might just as well have a laugh reading the old ones as start again. Another one
Ron: Will take a dekko over the weekend. A good night's sleep is what I need prior to Saturday, not a possible nightmare........... (...."and, he would have given Best Mate 30 lbs and a trouncing"...my personal 'favourite'...).
It is easy to decry feats and achievements that happened before "your time". The younger generation will always support the champions of their era, as that is what they have seen for themselves. And I am of the Arkle generation. But even though I was as amazed and astounded at himself's exploits as everyone else, I can atest that MY elders and betters were just as amazed. People who until Arkle came along swore that there would never be another Golden Miller, another Cottage Rake, were suddenly and unexpectedly taken to another level by the Irish superstar. His feats need no blandishment from me - they are there in the record books for all to see - and good horse though Flying Bolt undoubtedly was, he didn't and couldn't have scaled the walls of greatness that Arkle did. And because of condition changes alone, such weight defying performances will never be seen again. To try to put into context, imagine if you will, the (arguably) best of the recent generations of chaser - Kauto Star - being allotted 12 stone, Denman on 10-10, Imperial Commander on 10-5, Long Run on 10-2, every other decent chaser of their era being out of the handicap, but at the peak of their powers. Then Kauto wins by 20 lengths. Would you be gobsmacked? Well so were we - the lucky ones to have been around during Arkle's rein. He wasn't unbeaten - but there were always extenuating circumstances when he was - usually injury or illness, and on his first meeting with Mill House a bad jump 2 out. And it was an injury that finally stopped him. That doesn't mean, of course that generations since those days can't be venerated by race fans - you warm to what you see, so it is natural to laud the good horses of "your" time. But as others have already said, it has been debated ad nauseum on here and never ends well
Ron: Know he's got seven cats and ? dogs, so he keeps busy, I'm sure. We have one cat, and there's never a dull moment. Don't know how you manage what with the horses, cats and dogs, and keeping us all in line with OddDog on the forum. I am damn sure I couldn't do it....
Cheers cyc! Thats what I thought, but I didnt realise but it is a big shame as this debate I could see going on for a long long time!
I had completely forgotten Ron, tbh I cant even remeber what I had for dinner last week but I have added Flyingbolt in to this lol
Oh there are plenty more but this pub seems to be one of the very few where both fans can mix... Though maybe not if one of em gets a good hammering...!!!
