Karting is where the F1 stars of tomorrow are born and raised. I figure if you wanna discuss anything to do with karting, be it news, recommendations of good facilities/products, discuss the karting of past and present F1 drivers, fond memories and stories of karting or anything like that, this can be the thread to do it in
Very apt post RR, just been watching some videos. I have been many 4 or 5 times in the past, with friends (indoor). Costs a lot of money though. The thrill of speed and raw action makes up for it. And it totally shatters your spine and forearms afterwards. I love watching on-board outdoor cams on Youtube as weird as it sounds, mostly shifter karts, somehow makes me feel part of the action. Small errors can cause massive mistakes. Keeps you really on your toes. I guess that is why future champions are extracted from here. Amazing how they can keep composure at such speed at very close wheel to wheel racing. The need for spatial awareness and sensitivity to the kart is key I think. This shook me up the other day. [video=youtube;7PGr80Kdo_A]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PGr80Kdo_A[/video]
Wow that's brutal. That was actually really startling. My uncle a few years ago tried to get me into competitive karting because he knew I wanted to get into racing. He ran his own indoor facility in Sydney, he had my two younger cousins racing, knew all the right people; he is one of those mysterious karting gurus. It was insanely difficult at first, not so much the karting (I was always getting tips and advice) as it was incredibly draining in terms of things like transport and costs (I lived about two hours away from Sydney, but there was no other half-decent facilities anywhere near us). I love karting though, it was just really pure pedal-to-the-metal fun. I wasn't really racing competitively at first, but more trying to get a feel for it. About halfway into the year we moved houses and were just going through a really tough financial time, so I dropped it. I still go karting every now and then with friends, but our unhealthy financial situation and having to drive down to Sydney meant it wasn't gonna happen. However things have been improving recently and my uncle's given me an offer to come back and give it another crack. There's also a new facility (another branch of the facility my uncle used to run) opening not twenty minutes away from me now. It only opened up on Saturday but I heard about it and went and checked it out today. It's indoors for most of the track but part of it also goes outside the warehouse and onto some surrounding tarmac out the back. This is what excites me in particular; you've got to manage a slippery indoor surface for one part of the lap and different conditions in the outside part of the lap. It's a new facility so it's not massively advanced but given time it'll improve. I'm just so keen that there's finally a local karting facilty nearby.
I've been karting quite a few times. When I was younger, I used to be dragged along to fairs and shows, and was quite good at the various slo-mo karts that were their. A few years later, when I was 16, my brother, dad and I went down to the local kart track and we had a go the small slippery indoor surface. We were all pretty bad, not one of us beat the 18 second barrier when the lap record that day was 13 seconds! The next time we went, though, they were in the 14/15 second range and I hadn't improved, so I didn't bother going again. Getting lapped is embarrassing! However, I went for a mates birthday last week to a new track (much better, it's at least double the length), and being 23 and having had sufficient road driving experience, I thought I was a lot better and overtook quite a few of the others. Problem was, no matter how much I slammed down on the accelerator, a number of the other karts kept blitzing me on the straight (so much so I had to let them pass by lifting a little so we could both take the corner at the end without getting hurt. Sometimes this would allow me to get the undercut because they'd spear into the wall). Now, avid F1 fan that I am, I hypothesized during the running that it could be that if they were taking a different line in the previous corner, it could mean they were making more of the acceleration onto the straight and having an extra few Km to overtake. Thus I tried a number of different lines, swinging wide so there was more acceleration potential, keeping tight so there was a shorter distance to travel. Unfortunately this didn't solve the issue and I got passed a number of times on the straights. During the corners I would keep pace and do the damage, but getting close on the straights was seemingly impossible. When we looked at the print-out, my fastest time (33 seconds, which was 9/15) was 2 seconds per lap slower than the fastest time of the session (considering there was 2 pretty long straights and 2 shorter straights, I'm assuming this is where I was losing most of the time). Also, my "fastest speed" through the straight speed trap had been 4/5 Km/h slower than the fastest lap time speed, and almost 2 Km/h slower than the time ahead of me (ie 8th, which was a whole 1 second faster than my time). So, does anyone have any thoughts? I'm only 11 stone f-all, so I don't really see that being the issue. Did I land myself a dud Kart (being a polite sort of chap, I got one of the Karts at the end of the queue)? Am I missing out on a vital tip for making the kart go faster? Am I just terrible at go-karting? Am I not brave enough? What line should I be taking on an indoor surface before the longest straight? Is it possible my kart was "limited" (back when I went Karting with my dad and brother, my younger brother was 14/15 so had to go in a "limited Kart"? Would a limited Kart really only have a 4/5 km/h difference in speed? Anyway, I enjoyed it and hope to go again in the future, so any tips/advice would be helpful!
All I can really suggest is some vague instructions to let you're body get thrown around almost so that the inside wheel is unloaded and the kart doesn't bog down under early acceleration. It depends on the kart but I think a lot of it is down to how you position your body weight (and how you actually drive it of course)
My kids have just started (Son aged 11 and daughter aged 9) and I was amazed at their natural understanding of counter steer and balance. One thing a child has over an adult is their lack of fear! My children are racing in the Daytona league and have just started in Honda Cadet at http://trackreviewers.com/reviews/pf-international-kart/ which is over a thousand metres and even the entry karts are doing 60mph +! Scary when your own flesh and blood are hurtlying along without a care in the world! I ave raced cars and would consider myself a capable driver (especially in rear wheel drive cars) but even in a more powerful Kart I was getting easily beaten my son (Infact he was taking the piss to be honest) and my daughter was a decent match. Quite embarassing when your trying to give advice from the track side!
Yes I've read that somewhere else. You'd think more F1 drivers would be doing the Kubica-style movements since they've all come through karting! I shall try it next time, thanks!
As EMSC suggests, this is a good thread, RR. You have already had some very interesting responses and I will endeavour to return when I've got a bit more time to respond properly – in particular, to Gandalf and Smithers. BLS is on the right lines. I hope to be able to elaborate a little, especially to some of Gandalf's excellent and searching questions.
Weighing nearly 15 stone, whenever I go karting I end up stuck behind some sparrow driving a kart infront as simply can't overtake them due to the acceleration differences and the tight indoor tracks that make going round the outside at hairpins almost impossible. Weight is a killer! Really frustrating as when I'm circulating on my own my laptimes are generally near the front. damn my love of KFC!
I'm actually going to the new local track that opened up a few weeks ago for the first time tomorrow, let you know how it goes, but the track looks awesome. http://www.kartatak.com.au/ I used to use the track in Villawood, but this new one, even though the facilities are nowhere near as good the track is a lot better. Villawood has a bunch 90 degree turns and hairpins whereas this indoor/outdoor one at Tuggerah has much more of a challenge to it, despite being a lot shorter. Aiming for the lap record of 17.7 seconds. No pictures of it as it is really new.
tbh indoor tracks are fun but not really worth a **** for learning anything useful, they tend to have less real overtaking zones than Monaco, punting someone seems to be standard overtaking move, getting past someone slow driving in the middle of the track missing every racing line is next to impossible withut the old 'punt and run' move. Personally I prefer long and twisty outdoor circuits with lots of rain (like the look of the track in smithers post, I go to Buckmore when I can afford it). Body movement is a good idea, like throwing your bodyweight forward as you enter the straight. If you're taking your kids karting I'd also suggest taking them to an outside track on a wet day and get them to race around it on slicks tyres, it'll teach them more about corrective control than driving around on a rubbered track. (my first go in a real kart was on a snow and slush covered track and, to be rather conceited, I'm pretty **** hot in nasty conditions because of it, not too shabby in the dry either, but rain sorts the men from the boys). I keep meaning to enter the SODI world champinship, but my funds don't stretch that far atm, even though it only works out at around £1000 for a season. P.S. Gandalf, I suspect you had a bit of a dog kart tbh, if you kept up with them through the 'technical' parts of the track and got left behind down the straights then that's probably to do with the engine or weight.
Yeh I agree, the indoor tracks are generally very tight and can be very stop start with normally only one decent overtaking place on the track. The outdoor tracks are normally much higher speeds with more flow (and so momentum becomes more important than weight/power ratio) and your spot on Miggins - weather! Both off my kids learnt to drive in the wet on slicks and it does make a big difference, it makes them far more gentle on the throttle. Their driving coach teaches them to push the steering wheel (as opposed to pulling) and transfer their weight to the outside wheel for better traction, but based on the fact that they weigh next to nothing I dont see how this would make a massive difference, but maybe it is just better to get them into the habbit at an early age?
The indoor track near where I used to live was pretty good as indoors go, I had a lap record of around 38s I think because I know I was stuck at getting into the 30's, think the closed I got was a 40.2 or something In the summer they used to use an outside bit which always felt so slippy compared to the indoor bit and added about 20s to the lap. The problem was they were pretty much like nazi's when it came to the weather (Godwins law) as if it even looked remotely like drizzle the doors shut and it was all indoor. All this karting talk has me wanting to go karting some time, may have to go have a look this weekend
Some interesting things to think about chaps. I'm actually hoping it wasn't a dog now Miggins, because then there's more I can personally do to improve! I'll take my brother next time he's down and destroy him with these tips MWAHAHAHAHAHAHA Any advice on encouraging my girlfriend to race again? She finished dead last on the time sheets (by 2 clear seconds to 14th) and didn't overtake a single person. I can't imagine it's much fun going backwards, and I'd probably be the huffiest person in the world if I did, but I enjoy spending time with her doing stuff like karting and think she could get better. We went go-karting in America (at a place with such blind disregard for health and safety they had a crocodile pit next to the track... nutters!) and she screamed the entirety of the time (especially when I nudged her round a chicane to get past... my bad), but she was improving her lap times slowly when we went recently.
Well mixed emotions after first time at this new track. First 15-minute session, was just about learning the track and the kart. A long open hairpin for the first corner, followed by and s-bend into a much tighter hairpin onto a slight straight. Exit the warehouse into a bit of a blind double apex right-hander (massive downhill bump unsettles the kart as you exit the warehouse) and onto a long back-straight (best passing opportunity) and then late breaking into a very tight hairpin out the back. A slippery strip of metal across the apex there makes it difficult to stop the rear from stepping out but it can be done and is crucial to line yourself up immediately for the tight left hander following as you re-enter the warehouse (massive uphill bump there unsettles the car and makes it damn-near impossible to take the apex at a reasonable speed without hitting the wall). Line it up for the final right-hander (fastest corner on the track) and across the line. My fastest time that session: 18.866 Second session started off badly. Couldn't figure out why I couldn't make the kart behave the way it did before, and then I realised the pedals were much closer forwards than before. I made to come in and change them but pushed too hard into the final turn, clipped the inside wall, bounced off it across the track into the opposite wall, up onto the guard rail, caught some air and the kart slammed back down onto the track. Busted the suspension, bruised both my ribs, and it was at that point I realised how blistered my hands were from the steering wheel. Took a quick break before coming back (pedals moved further away) and despite bruised ribs, badly blistered hands and three other drivers on track, set a 18.532! Only 8 tenths or so from the lap record. Also, much more consistent times than the first session. I can be happy with that. Great track with a lot technique to it, also very fun for drifting
Yeah, it's a shame money comes into it but as you say, compensation in the sheer thrill of the action, eh, EMSC?! If your forearms are suffering consistently, you're probably doing pretty well! Agreed! That on-board camera from EMSC's video really illustrates the danger arising from a lack of awareness or anticipation: one moment you're having loads of fun; the next it's all over… Please see separate response to follow (hopefully later tonight if I get chance). Nice one, BLS. Fantastic! Your kids are privileged, Smithers; you're giving them the best possible opportunity where they will get high quality tuition and are also in the ideal spot to be 'noticed'. At an early age, counter-steering is entirely instinctive; but I empathise with your own instincts for your own flesh and blood! Simplest advice you can give is to encourage them to try to look as far ahead as possible* – especially to the exit of corners – rather than becoming focussed on the apex, which pre-occupies (and limits) most people. This will help them 'flow' and develop a sense for the circuit as a whole, rather than as a series of strung together parts. In tune with this idea is that when in the presence of others, keep looking ahead of them and do not become transfixed with the short term of objective of passing them. By looking well ahead, speed will 'flow' and overtaking will tend to occur quite naturally. More 'localised' action (such as apexes, other drivers, flags, etc.) should be largely taken care of by using peripheral vision. They should avoid allowing this focus to be interfered with, and deliberately develop an awareness of events close-by "from the corner of one's eye", as it were. *This can be deliberately practised whilst running, cycling, skiing etc. In fact it forms the very basis of 'visualisation': i.e. forming any short-term plan of physical action. This is necessarily conscious in the beginning (as with practising any new skill) but will gradually become 'absorbed' into the sub-conscious, rather like a computer which can run various functions, programmes and sub-routines in the background (if the programming of its Operating System is good). Hmm… Dare I say, in footballing vernacular, that 15 stone 'is a big ASC'! Please forgive my lame joke but this is a serious disadvantage in a low-powered kart. As you say, in particular, it will hamper acceleration; but also braking. The trick is to try to use the weight to your advantage. Remember that a heavier person has more grip, and that once up to speed, also has more momentum! Please see my response to Gandalf (hopefully to follow later tonight), which will elaborate upon BLS's point (above). Oops! Sorry to hear about your flying lesson, RR! Great that you understand the underlying cause: that you did not follow your gut-feeling to sort out the pedals! Becoming preoccupied with a problem is a recipe for disaster. Good lesson though because such an experience is a great opportunity (to learn from)…
I should also mention that Miggins introduced an important point about surfaces, and in particular, weather – which of course only plays its part outdoors. Outdoor tracks are almost always bigger and speeds will tend to be significantly higher. It is not my intention to downplay the value and fun of indoor circuits but they can sometimes best be thought of as an introduction to what may follow. It should also be noted that indoor fun tends to be more affordable and is a great way for a group of friends wishing to test their competitive mettle in a well-controlled, safe (especially in the UK) environment.
Lol, actually the lap I crashed was the very lap I tried to come in and get it remedied Still aching all over, but I reckon if you don't crash or spin in karting at least once you're not pushing hard enough -easy for me to say; they're not my karts! Also on Miggins' point, yeah I'd much prefer an outdoors track, but as Cosi points there's also benefit to indoor tracks. I like the tightness of the walls, where there's little margin for error. Plus, I never race on indoor tracks anyway; every indoor track I've been to says that if someone's faster than you, pull over to the left and let them go past. It's just basically driving around looking for lap time, but also learning the craft of karting. There isn't an outdoor facility within three hours of me, so indoor tracks are really all I have, plus as Cosi says it's cheap affordable fun with mates. Managing the surfaces at this new track is also another thing. You've got the incredibly slippery indoor surface contrasting with the really grippy outdoor surface, so it's important to remember at what parts of the track you can push on, and what parts you need to be more delicate with. While it's not a wet track (the outdoor section becomes closed when it rains and the track is reconfigured inside), I think having two completely different track surfaces and conditions at the same time can be a good simulation.
