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Kamui Kobayashi

Discussion in 'Formula 1' started by Forza Bianchi, Jun 16, 2011.

  1. Forza Bianchi

    Forza Bianchi Well-Known Member

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    He's a good exciting driver I'm sure we can all agree, but how good?

    His exciting driving style makes him very interesting to watch, and I've never come across any anti-Kobayashi people. He is excellent under braking, possibly the best driver on the grid in that respect. While I love watching him drive, I hate it when one of my boys attempts to overtake him, like Massa tried to at Canada - because I expect contact - and imo that's the problem with him.

    His collisions are at times too aggressive. Even his overtaking masterclass in Japan last year involved contact, which he was to blame for. His collisions aren't as noticed as Hamilton's but both drivers have the same problem with attempting overtakes that are a bit too ambitious.

    He also struggles in qualifying, at times getting beaten by De La Rosa last year, and even this year recently Perez is owning him when it comes to qualifying.

    I understand some people have a very high opinion of him - in a better car he might calm down a bit, but I don't see it happening unless he goes through a period like Hamilton is now. I hope he can refine his skills further at Sauber this year, and then move onto bigger teams - but at the moment I believe Perez is on the verge of showing him up, just as Di Resta is doing to Sutil.

    How good is Kobayashi and where do we see him next year?
     
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  2. u408379965

    u408379965 Well-Known Member

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    Have we been watching the same sport this season?

    I was under the impression that Kobayashi had been outqualifying Perez most of the season, and he's certainly wiped the floor with him in the races. Kamui's been immense this season, he's finished every race in the points in what is a pretty mediocre car. He's been maximising the potential of what he's been given and I've been more impressed with him this season than the last season and a bit. If he carries on in this vein he should get a drive higher up the grid.

    Edit: 3-2 to Perez in qualifying. Kobayashi has been **** hot in the races though.
     
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  3. Forza Bianchi

    Forza Bianchi Well-Known Member

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    I'm not saying Kobayashi is bad, just not as good as people make him out to be - overrated.

    I would like to be proved wrong though.
     
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  4. Delete Me

    Delete Me Well-Known Member

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    Kobayashi is one of the best drivers on the grid this year in my opinion. He has scored points at every grand prix this year and is sitting 1 point behind the Mercedes drivers. He has also suffered 1st lap punctures at 2 grand prixs with no safety car to help and he still manages to crawl into the points.

    His major flaw is not his over enthusiasm but his qualifying results, maybe it's because the sauber is crap in qualifying trim but excels on race trim. Other than that I see him a far more relaxed version of a Lewis Hamilton, he saw last year that he was making too much contact and he's upped his game. Look at the points tally he has already got compared to last year, he's almost equalled it, and it's not even halfway into the season.

    We have to understand yes Perez is a very young driver but kamui is only 24 and is into his second full season so he has still a lot to learn.
     
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  5. Eat Sleep Watch F1 Repeat

    Eat Sleep Watch F1 Repeat Active Member

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    Underated IMO. If he was given a chance at a team like Renault, Mercedes or Ferrari he would be great. Unlike other drivers he actually has the balls to overtake in any conditions.

    He is only in his second season isn't he? Give him time and in a better car I think he will shine.
     
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  6. u408379965

    u408379965 Well-Known Member

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    I thought that before this season. Exciting, but not a great race driver. Without the DSQ in Australia though, he would've been joint 7th in the championship in the sixth best car. Phenomenal achievement.
     
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  7. El_Bando

    El_Bando Can't remember, where was I? Forum Moderator

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    Hes finished in the top 10 every race this year. How many other drivers in midfield cars are doing that?
     
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  8. The Iceman

    The Iceman Member

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    Kamui is no way over-rated. He is getting the praise he deserves this season. How he has gotten in the top 10 every race when he's had punctures on the first lap in 2 races is quite remarkable. If he had a top car this season I seriously think he'd be right up there.

    The scary thing is? He's still improving.
     
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  9. El_Bando

    El_Bando Can't remember, where was I? Forum Moderator

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    "Kamui is the greatest gift Toyota gave to F1"


    not so much nakajima....
     
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  10. cosicave

    cosicave Well-Known Member

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    Kobayashi is almost a Japanese version of Hamilton.

    People who overtake more are also more likely to have collisions with others. That much should be plain obvious. So do we want overtaking or not?

    These two drivers are amongst the most ambitious drivers on the grid, which is why people find them so exciting. The level of criticism focussed on a few knocks is disproportionate. Surely people do not think they can always overtake without an element of risk? This is F1 not M1!
     
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  11. Vilsmeier-Haack Reaction

    Vilsmeier-Haack Reaction Well-Known Member

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    His record in previous Formulae (is that the plural when referring to the sports?) is quite mediocre is it not.

    Strange that he was able to make an instant impact in the sport whereas others that have lit up the lower levels cant make the step uo ( Di Grassi, Hulkenberg)
     
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  12. Big Ern

    Big Ern Lord, Master, Guru & Emperor

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    probably the least crashed driver on the grid, and no where near as aggressively dangerous as Felipe "try and nudge them off" Massa, or Fernando "I've lost the corner but, *sod it, I'm turning in anyway" Alonso.

    His qualifying lets him down, but I think he's only been beaten once by any of his team-mates on track during his whole F1 career, which was because someone hit him and he lost a lap getting to the pits. Showed just how good he was at Canada by leading all the "wet-race specialists" in a pretty crappy car, and in Turkey he started in last place and still beat Felipe.

    As to the lower formulaes, what sort of car did he have? how good was his sponsorship? was he, like all the others you mentioned, on a F1 drivers program, or has he made it all the way simply because he's done brilliantly in bags of ****? looking at wikipedia for his final results without looking further is complete BS, it's like saying when Alonso came into F1 he was **** because he was always at the back, when everyone could see he wasn't, it was just the car (minardi) he was in.

    I think if he went to Ferrari or McLaren you'd see LH and FA walking around with miserable faces not long after.


    My only complaint about him is sometimes he lets positions go too easily and doesn't fight for them hard enough (although not as badly as Rosberg).

    Of course, we won't see how good he really is until he gets in a decent car, but over the history of F1 from when I've been watching the following drivers I've known from the first that they would be 'up there'

    Prost, Senna, Alesi, Schumacher, Alonso, Hamilton & Vettel. Not all were champions (grr, Alesi, you let me down) but you could see from the start of their F1 careers they had it, and I feel the same way about Kobayashi



    Yes, I am a fan.
     
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  13. Vilsmeier-Haack Reaction

    Vilsmeier-Haack Reaction Well-Known Member

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    Seems Martin Brundle didn't agree with your assessment of that incident. I still maintain Button should have been landed with a penalty
     
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  14. Delete Me

    Delete Me Well-Known Member

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    Maybe kamui was just under his own pressure all the time, being unable to focus and do what he's doing now. Just seems to be very strange how he was back then and then to just explode with Toyota.

    Hopefully one day he'll have a biography so I can find out what changed his persona so quickly.
     
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  15. cosicave

    cosicave Well-Known Member

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    This is the product of pressure at the top. F1 is a whole new ball(s)-game. It can also be the case that technically capable drivers are less noticeable in the lower levels. Loads of drivers can also look promising lower down the ranks where everything is far less technically demanding, but cutting the mustard at the very top is an altogether different matter and requires the dedication and intelligence of a fighter pilot, as well as similar survival and killer instincts.

    Some people really come alive in this type of environment, whilst others who previously shone with all the promise of a sunny day, find clouds that threaten rain. (Sebastian Bourdais is one of the best recent examples; a talented driver who simply didn't have the mental toughness).


    P.S. 'Formulæ' is perfect. - Strange that we don't see it used more often really! :)
     
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  16. u408379965

    u408379965 Well-Known Member

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    <ok>

    It annoys me when people say drivers in lower formula (I spell it how I say it :p) all have the same equipment when the difference in resource between the top and bottom teams is so vast. The top teams have much more personel and better engineers, meaning more often than not the car will be set up better. They can also afford to buy development parts and replacement parts, whilst teams lower down can consist of just half a dozen people, and sometimes have to run with outdated or broken parts on the car. Chassis and engines may be homologated, but it's far from being a level playing field.
     
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  17. Vilsmeier-Haack Reaction

    Vilsmeier-Haack Reaction Well-Known Member

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    Now there is a point. That time he started crying on TV after his missed opportunity in Spa 2008 was the end for him. Broken
     
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  18. cosicave

    cosicave Well-Known Member

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    Very very true indeed AG. Good call !
    As you say, this is all too easily overlooked by the casual observer who sees one or two guys dominating but has no knowledge of the operation which puts them on the grid.


    P.S. I spell it how I say it too!
    :)
     
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  19. genjigonzales

    genjigonzales Active Member

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    'Formulas' is fine because in English we pluralise a noun by adding 's', as in 'referendums', where the singular form of an imported word is common. 'Formulae' is pronounced 'formulee'. <ok>

    What's with all the Kobayashi love today?
     
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  20. Delete Me

    Delete Me Well-Known Member

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    For me Kamui is a future legend. He's the equal of the early days of Fittipaldi and Schumacher in their respective countries. Kobayashi could be the first man to carry the Japanese flag to the world title, he's got something about him, an "aura" that you can just feel he can become world champion. This would filter into the next Japanese racers for the future and would only be positive for the sport I believe.

    Look what Schumacher and Fittipaldi did for their countries in regard to F1, Kamui could do the same.
     
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