It's not often we have off topic threads on Gills not606, but with such an important political event on Thursday 23rd June, I feel it's one that should not be over looked during pre-season. I've never been so serious about anything in regards to politics in all my life, even more passionate than i have been about some football topics, I don't wish to force my views on anyone but this is my opinion; A vote to stay in the EU is a very worrying prospect, I'm only glad my life expectancy will not live to see the total reality of such a consequence. Many millions of people have given their lives in history for people today in the modern world to have this democratic right. Yet, all I hear about is financial hardship, job losses etc - I'm not even going to waste my breath putting those thoughts straight. Other than to say many a soldier will be turning in their grave. I'm not completely going to reinvent the wheel but just paste what I said elsewhere; I'm out and for one simple reason, it's nothing to do with jobs, financial needs or even migration. All the aspects that some IN campaigners go on about. I hear about house prices falling, good i say, it affects us all, so be it. I hear about job losses, well it can't be any worse than the situation with steel mills, NHS struggling and god knows what else. So why do I want out, well Boris did nail it slightly for me with the Hitler comment, yes not quite the same context but a one state just the same, so to my reason... If I travel to Spain, France, Germany, Italy or any other country, I want to see their culture, I want hear their language, I want to spend their currency, I want to abide by their rules including trade and marketing, I want everyone to be different, surely that is what we have always strived for in peacetime, in a multi cultural diverse society, if we all become cloned Europeans, everything marketed and labelled the same, every country abiding by the same EU regulations, everyone becoming part of an EU like the United States of America, then Hitler has achieved his dream in part from beyond the grave. Unelected people dictating to us, governing us, one army, one state, no diversity, one culture.
brb I agree with you - but you shouldn't dismiss financial reasons for 'leaving.' Britain pays in £Mssss more into the 'club' than it receives. Our trade with Europe won't be affected if we 'leave' - they all want our money ! --- and that includes all the economic migrants that our 'membership' of Europe forces upon us. In yesterday's news, it showed that net migration into Britain was at over 300,000 a year ( around a million more people every 3 years ). Britain simply cannot afford to keep handing out freebies and benefits to more and more people - yet, we have no control in the matter. We are not allowed to Govern in our own country....... so - what is the point of having all our MPs ? none ! (at least their abolition could pay for a few more migrants ).
As opposed to hear hear.........Here is where the home is and that's where charity begins. Sort our own issues out before taking on the rest of the world's problems. No....this is not xenophobia. The UK is a tiny island and it is struggling to support the numbers there as it is......schooling, housing (my offspring will never be able to afford their own house.........unless they give up their jobs etc and throw themselves at the nanny state), hospitals etc. The UK got where it is through hard work and self sufficiency....let's not chuck it all away.
Financially I accept there will be a slow in growth for a few years, but I think anyone that uses this as an argument to stay in the EU ought to think, they are selling their soul for a few years of recovery, the decision we make on the 23rd June will affect future generations, do we honestly believe many soldiers gave their lives to be governed by the EU and a strong member of that being Germany. But before people become confused, this is not about Europe, I've made that clear in my OP comments, this is about the EU and how this will develop into a one state if people vote IN. You only have to look across to Calais last Thursday morning, where it was reported 200-300 Sudanese and Afgan migrants fought , this was not desperate women and children but young men - people across many nations have failed to live in peace for varied reasons, do we want to bring those same differences to come and live in the UK, where migrant communities will need to live side by side in integration, with tolerance and respect for others and the people of our Country and it's culture, beliefs and laws.
brb just to clarify my previous post - when I say the financial reason for leaving, I mean 'leaving - and NOT staying edit -- as for the last couple of lines of your last post - people of our own culture can't sit side by side without fighting !....... "We are Millwall, no one likes us, we don't care. "
brb stop replying so quickly - before I've had a chance to edit my post ! edit --- in view of my edit in post No.6, you now might want to unlike it
I think there is a massive difference to what you portray in your post, to the situation that I am portraying. Afghanistan is listed as the third most dangerous country in the world, Sudan as the sixth most dangerous, there are other listings for example the top 25 that will list the former as second and South Sudan as the third most dangerous with Sudan overall still being listed as sixth. If you look at the images mainly portrayed by the media, they are young men ie youth. Yes, I understand their plight but with that one surely has to assume it will bring it's social issues and as you have rightly highlighted we have enough of our own, football is merely a reflection of that being attracted mainly again to young male adults. If people come here to live, integrate with communities in peace, respecting OUR beliefs and way of life I have no problem with that, however, Belgium has already highlighted in no uncertain terms what happens when you allow movement so freely. Say for example I wish to go to the USA, I have to show my passport, apply for a visa waiver, show evidence of my first night of accommodation, I will be asked some questions about my stay, I will have my photo taken on EVERY visit, I will have my finger prints taken on EVERY visit and that is just for a two week holiday! If I acted in the way the migrants have acted in Calais (for whatever their reasons) I would not be allowed to enter the country.
brb Just on the issue of migrants, we need to vote 'NO.' We struggle to prevent any illegal immigrant - let alone having MILLIONS more being forced on us. IT won't be long before we become a nation where there is much in-fighting between groups of people from all sorts of background. I have lived in Cliftonville, Margate in my time. It became locally known as Kosoville - for the number of Eastern Europeans that flooded the place. I saw these people create their own little ghettos - and defending 'their' territory against a batch of other 'foreigners.' There would regularly be battles involving much weaponry - and none of them ever sought to get a job - just coming into Britain to scrounge and steal. Their hobby was to sexually harass the local women ( and that was on a 'good day' ). I'm certainly glad my family are no longer in the area. Britain need to be able to have its' own democracy - not being ruled by Europe Nous sommes Millwall. Personne n'aime-nous soucions pas.
Making this referendum about immigration is wasting your vote, immigration started on a large scale back in the 50's/60's before membership of the EU, it will continue long after membership of the EU (if it goes that way). The £350m (that's gross, net is a lot lower) that people keep spouting about won't suddenly go away, Norway and Switzerland both pay large sums into the EU for the right to trade, they also adopt a lot of EU law including freedom of movement. Could we trade without those restrictions, unlikely as it would upset the non-members who do pay into the system and except EU rules. Keeping the values of the UK is harder, what are the UK values, tolerance of others, helping those less fortunate, or are we saying that we don't want Bratwurst or Frog legs to replace Tikka Masala as our national dish, ok, that bit was tongue in cheek but it makes my point.
grumpygit Your argument has got 'legs' ( although, maybe not frogs legs ). I do understand the fact that non members pay a levy to trade with the EU. In principle. I don't have a problem with that - it can't surely be more than the current amount by which Britain is stung every day ? I still firmly believe that the rest of Europe will still want our money - so I am confident that there won't be any major adverse affect to trade or jobs - ( dare I say British jobs for British people ?). And if we continue to be forced to take in the aforementioned migrants, you can remove the term 'British.' I totally accept that our migration 'problem' started decades ago. At the time ( from my understanding ), Britain had plenty of jobs and needed foreign labour to fill them. I don't have a problem with anyone, of any nationality, coming to Britain - to work, pay tax etc ( actually contributing ) - but these must be prerequisites for their permission to enter the country. Our immigration problems will not go away if we either 'stay in' or 'leave'. Britain has made a rod for its' own back - and Britain needs to implement changes that does not make it 'financially attractive' to those who want a 'free ride.' ( and that includes the native population ). That will require greater political upheaval than merely leaving the EU......However, by remaining within the EU, Britain will have more of its' sovereignty removed. It will not be allowed to set its' own rules to protect the interest of its' own people. Britain will be forced to accept even more migrants - who we can't afford at current levels - let alone an extra million every three years -AND - all the while, Britain will be expected to pay handsomely for the privilege of being shafted by the rest of Europe and those who will come to our gravy train from outside Europe - but happen to pass through it - before arriving at Calais - where the French are too busy laughing at Britain to do anything to stop these migrants from entering the 'Promised Land.' grumpygit, in short, British politics has much mess of its' own to sort out - we don't need more problems from the EU. We have got to take back our right to control our own destiny - and do something to change our system for the better. One last point - and, sorry, it is on immigration - what will happen when Britain runs out of money to pay for all the freebies and benefits that Europe forces upon us ? Who is going to pay ? I don't see it being the French........................................nous sommes l'Europe, personne comme nous, nous ne nous soucions pas ! ( well it makes a change from mentioning Millwall all the time )
Always, Whilst I agree immigration is a problem, will brexit make it all go away, I don't think so. The illegal migrants will just find it easier as the French camps will close, UK customs will be the first check by which time they will already be here. The migrants from the European freedom of movement will continue as part of a trade agreement with Europe as per Norway and Switzerland, so that just leaves the people looking for a free ride and that has already been agreed that migrants have to be here 4 years to qualify for benefits.
