When you look at his record all the good stuff is saving teams from relegation, that's great I hear you say he can save us but now here's my take on that. He comes in and achieves short term motivation and success with someone else's team, in the longer term when building his own team the wheels fall off. Last season he inherited a team from Hess and did really well until he started to tinker, the longer the season went on (the more Hess players he threw out) the more we started to struggle. Cheltenham and Not's County where he had longer contracts he failed.
grumpy...please tell me you only took 2 seconds to work that out..lol...and preferably last season before the shiny silverware!
Complete knee jerk thread. He improved our defence, which was a shambles under Hessenthaler. Linganzi and Hollands in our midfield is a very decent pairing and he still uses Lee (a guy we drastically over pay by all accounts...and you can thank Hess for that). Weston I have no clue what's up with; it may be he's a very decent league two standard player and the jump is too much for him, he might be nursing a knock or god knows what else. To top it, Hess would have loved to keep Bayo and Cody together and most here were creaming over the prospect before the season began. I'd have liked a better striker but we've seen just how much money Scally likes to invest in this team (aka JACK) and he can harp on about wages all he likes. He needs to invest in signing better players and not ver paying average ones. Allen gave him a list of players he wanted at the start of the year, and he said as much in his cheap shot at Scally in the media when he stated he'd asked for players like Marlon Pack. He didn't get them. There is no money. I'd even considered the fact allen would rather be somewhere else. We're a small club with a chairman who watches streams of games in Dubai living his tax free life. He spent a tonne after buying this club for nothing and has lived off of our successes ever since, nearly burying us in the process. He got. Us back on track, we break even but in reality, he has nothing left to give us. No. New manager is going to change where we are.
Utter drivel, Hessy's squad was nowhere near good enough to gain promotion, how do we know m BECAUSE THEY DID NOT ACHIEVE PROMOTION. Allen came in and made changes required and yet isn't given the credit he deserves, with many fans still with there rose tinted glasses on. Allen achieved promotion and should be given a chance to cement the clubs status at L1
Utter drivel, Hessy's squad was nowhere near good enough to gain promotion, how do we know m BECAUSE THEY DID NOT ACHIEVE PROMOTION. Allen came in and made changes required and yet isn't given the credit he deserves, with many fans still with there rose tinted glasses on. Allen achieved promotion and should be given a chance to cement the clubs status at L1
BSG with the greatest respect to you - grumpygit is correct. I know that, due to geographical reasons you are unable to attend as many games as you would like - so perhaps haven't seen what I've had to put up with ( and I don't just mean Martin Bounasissi ) (who ?*). I saw the problems ( for this season ) long before the last one finished. I've said before, that we got lucky last year - we were the best of a poor bunch - yet still managed to lose 6 home games and our points tally would literally not have given promotion in other years, let alone the title. Allen has been quite stubborn in dismantling the squad that Hess had built. I'm sure that it needed some changing - but the changes that were needed for L1 have not been addressed. I will defend Allen a little on this point - because he does not dictate Club finances. However the playing tactics and motivation are within his remit. I have watched far too much hoofball than I can take. I think that Nelson is (almost) single handedly keeping our goal difference from being ridiculous ( even after only 8 league games ), - but if he could learn to shoot from just outside his penalty area, his current goal attempts wont fall just short. With regards to motivation - you weren't at Crawley. After we went 2-3 down there were 12 + 6 minutes remaining. Our performance in this period was utter garbage. Absolutely no effort to retrieve a point. There was worse utter garbage to follow at Northampton. Apparently this brand of utter garbage was an excellent & fantastic 100% effort. These were the claims by Martin Allen. I applaud the fact that he was a little more honest after yesterday's game - but he still had the audacity to defend the performance against Coventry. L1 football is a little more technical than L2. The ball is passed more and movement on/off it is quicker. ( we are not ) Defending demands more concentration - and we can't rely on the physicality that is effective in lower leagues. I actually believe that (despite one or two exceptions ) we do have a squad capable of mid table in L1. The way that the squad is teamed up and asked to play is not in my (not so) humble opinion, "excellent, fantastic or 100% effort" Friends for a £5 ! If I gave away all the vouchers in my two season tickets I'd have 8 fewer friends - actually I don't have 8 friends ( ok - I don't have any friends - well certainly not any who are linesmen *)
Always, yes of course you are correct the performances this season have been sub par and MA's defence of it has been incredulous to say the least, but this was not my point. For too long at this club the name Hessenthaler has hung over any manager for reasons that are inexplicable to me. Ye Hess was a wonderful player, possible the greatest ever to pull on a blue shirt, but as a manager he could not live up to his standards as a player. People accuse Allen of inheriting a good squad, the team Hess got in the 2000s was absolutely brilliant albeit aging. All Hess needed to do was gradually replace the old guard with talented youth but he failed to add any quality to the squad and over saw the beginning of the end of the clubs glory days. Fast forward to 2010 and Hess returns, a chance of redemption perhaps, with a loaded deck; a chairman willing to heavily invest and a team who recently won promotion under the much maligned Stimson. Promotion is nailed on surely? No wait because a large portion of the fans still fail to see the obvious flaws in Hess as a manager and despite having the prolific duo of Bayo and Cody he still manages to fail where even Stimson succeeded. Then along comes a manager, who is not a likeable as Hess, but clearly more talented and adds some quality to the squa and wind promotion, but somehow Hess is still given credit, which is unbelievably insulting. I am all for credit where credit is due and criticism when it is also valid. MA needs to turn things around this season but considering it was a two year plan to establish L1 football MA should be allowed to see it out.
I will take the middle ground here though I am primarily in Grumpy and Always camp, I am no great fan of Hess the manager either, but MA made the necessary changes to move the small distance from 2 x 7th places to a promotion winning side (as champions), mainly by making us harder to play against, but it was a poor league we were champions with the fewest points for a number of years and Hess's 70 pts from 2011/12 would have made the play offs last year (and then its a lottery). But this year we have been awful, far worse than we were in this league under Stimson, where our away record was unforgivable but we were a joy to watch at home more often than not. I would give MA another month to win at least 2 matches but if we are bottom of the league at the end of November we must make a change in order for the new man to have the time to make the required impact, there are enough decent footballers in the squad (despite the release of numerous players) but all the time we are playing from back to front as we are now we will not create the chances needed to win matches and I dont see MA changing his style now. Blaming Scally is fruitless too, we still have a club thanks to Scally and if MA did not want the money spent on the wages of Bayo and Cody he should have been a man enough to tell him so, now I am not saying PS is perfect either, but he is more deserving of our support in my opinion than the manager and I am sure if someone came along with the money to take us over and take us to the next level he would be more than happy to stand aside, but somehow I cant see that happening so he will continue to try and take the club forward.
BSG I will agree that, for our success last season, Allen deserves credit. I am as guilty as most for not giving as much credit as perhaps I should. I will also defend, not just ALLEN, but SCALLY ( ! ) Whilst I still believe that there is money for new players, I suspect that Scally ( by not spending ), might be looking to preserve the long term financial stability of the clubs - when so many others are experiencing problems in that department - that could threaten their existence. Maybe we, the fans, do not look at the 'bigger picture' when we argue to 'splash the cash.' Unfortunately we want instant gratification - and do not give consideration that football finances in the lower leagues is fraught - many teams could easily follow the likes of Luton ! - and most fans are not interested in the politics involved 'behind the scenes.' I have stated many times that I am pragmagmatic regarding the status of our Club. We are where we are because of our financial strength. Until a rich benefactor comes along it is difficult to see that the situation can realistically change ( I know you'll quote me Blackpool, & Hull -I will say that even Wigan had major money pumped in. ) - but these are exceptions that prove the rule - now you'll say why can't we be an exception - I'd love that - but the 'rule' will prevail ! - Anyway, enough digression - I don't like to admit that some of our players are not up to L1. As aforementioned, I do believe that we have enough in the squad to be mid-table. However ( and THIS is where Hess was probably even more to blame than ALLEN ), the style of football - and in particular the committment of effort - that I have quoted in other posts, has not been good enough. Motivation is ALLEN's responsibility - I don't think he has given the right message to his players if he thinks that what was served up in our last two away games was "excellent, fantastic & 100%" - carry on lads - more of the same ! It could be said that the confidence of footballers whose side is bottom of their league is fragile - criticism could blow it out completely - but it would seem that at least one player ( Mr.Lee ) has responded positively to being transfer listed - maybe the others could be encouraged with a larger rocket up their bottom- and sod their feelings !
Thankyou AshfordGill - Oh ( and you know I can't resist being alwaysright ) - it was actually 2 x 8th place not seventh ) -but I know what you meant.
Can I just say that I actually thought the performance yesterday was better than the Coventry game and far better than the last 6 minutes against Crawley...no?...oh ok
The ultimate point the OP made was he inherited Hess' team and has made it worse. Which is utter rubbish. He improved Hess' team. Whether this slightly better team is good enough for the next level is very up in the air right now. MA won't be given a huge amount of time if in a month or so e still haven't won a game. What should be debated is has he not done enough or is it the simple fact he can't do enough because of financial restrictions? This team has been built Angela on free transfers. Scally hasn't spent a dime of his own money.
I like Martin Allen and was very impressed with what he achieved last season, how he improved the squad he inherited, got the team playing good football and made us a very difficult side to beat and of course we were excellent away from home. However somewhere along the way I feel he has lost his way. I can`t remember the last time we put in a very good performance at home. There were a lot before christmas last season, Burton, Aldershot and Scunthorpe particularly come to mind. We played good passing football and scored lots of goals. Key players in those games were of course Jack Payne and David Wright as well as Chris Whelpdale. Now the football is long ball and we can hardly score a goal, just three at home in four league games and never more than one in any of them. The lack of any goals from midfield is a concern and the lack of a creative attacking central midfield player a real worry. Cody will score goals but he needs good balls to played through to him and this is not happening at the moment. Personally I feel Mad dog has to be a lot more positive at home and really take the game to the oppositon. I fully understand why people did not like Mark Stimson but the way he set up his team at home the last time we were in this division gave an indication of what is needed to be successful at home. Pacey forwards and creative midfield players, take the game to oppositon from the start and put them on the back foot. Just a shame he could never set up the team to be successful away! As Martin Allen gave us our first title in 50 years I am more than willing to give him time to turn things around as he deserves it. He needs to turn things around soon though in terms of performances and results or alas we will be relegated.
Last time I saw the accounts, there was an accumulated debt in excess of £9m in companies controlled by the Chairman which was there by virtue of various financial reconstructions and inter-company dealings. That debt is OUTSIDE the club, but has been used to keep the club afloat and broadly competitive, and as of last year debt free. PS may not be everyone's cup of tea, and I personally still have questions about his longer term ambitions (in other words I really would like to know what they are. I emphasize WHAT THEY ARE, not what he announces they are), but I do not question the degree to which he has financially supported the club during his ownership, or his right to draw an income from the club.
I still remain in the thought that the team under Hessenthaler WAS good enough to get promoted, Hess just never quite showed the tactics that deserved the team to get promotion. When he realised that our younger players may lead us to success, the damage was already done by playing Lawrence at Right Back for too long. MA made some additions that were good enough to get us over the line, namely Nelson, Barrett, Legge and Burton. We have then lost some of our better footballing players in Jackman and Payne due to Martin's decision they didn't fit in. He then replaced Montrose with Gregory which doesn't look like a decision that's paid off, replaced Burton with Bayo of which the jury is still out on whether that was a good decision or not and has had a reduced budget due to the oversight of the club not introducing a new shirt. MA has underestimated this league and this is why he has started to make changes, implementing the 4-4-2 system which we haven't seen at Priestfield since Hess and still playing players out of position. I reserve the judgement that this squad is good enough for League One, mid to lower half of table but good enough for this league. The tactics again of hoof ball or rely on long throws are not good enough for this league.
The discrepancy between the first third of last season and the start to this season can be summed up in three words: Payne, Wright, Jackman. They were the centre of our strong, passing midfield (Whelpdale being the other main component - now inexplicably transfer listed) that allowed us to dominate games and usually win by several goals in that brilliant few months. They have been got rid of (ok, Wright was not MAllen's fault) and replaced by vastly inferior players. We stumbled through the 2nd half of last season, amassing enough additional points for the title, thanks to the establishment of the rock solid League 2 defence of Nelson, Fish, Barrett, Legge and Martin - well done Allen for achieving this. But this defence alone is clearly not going to win us points in League One. We are paying the price of allowing our midfield to decay.
If only clubs were promoted on the strength of the squad! Sadly the managers roles needs to be considered to. You can believe want you want about the strength of the Hess' squad but the fact still remains that it didn't go up therefore as a whole unit (including the managers role) was not good enough.
