A quick poll to gauge what we think of our academy record. Brought about because i am forever reading (mainly on here) how our academy is one of the best i would like to hear your arguments for and against. For me i dont deny that the facilities, people in charge is all great but does the academy record really bear out to claim one of the best in the country? i dont deny that the academy has brought through a large number of players who have gone on the make a modest/decent career in football - blackstock, dyer,mcgoldrick, lancashire - there are many examples over the last few years. Credit to the academy for that. For me though a really good academy will do one of two things - either 1) unearth a constant stream of top quality players that will earn the club huge transfer fees or 2)bring great quality players through to play in the 1st team, hence not have to pay big transfer fees to bring players in. With regards to bringing in large transfers over the last few years - there are only the usual examples - Walcott, Bale, could possibly add Oxo to the list, going back a bit further Chris Baird and there are others but not that regular. The second point about bringing players through to play regularly in the Saints 1st team is not so great either. Last season the only regular players were Lallana and Chamberlain, an odd appearence by Gobern and this is in LEAGUE 1. We are basically saying there are not enough academy players to cut the grade regularly in league 1 let alone championship or premier league. Next point is where are the next crop of great youngsters and why are they not making England under 17 or 19 squads. We have just had the under 17 world cup - not a saints player in sight - here is the squad - Pickford (sunderland), Cousins (Charlton), Smith (Liverpool), Lundstram (everton), Jackson (Middlesboro), Chalobah (Chelsea), Sterling (Liverpool), Powell (crewe), Hope, (everton) Clayton (crewe), Caskey (Brighton), Evans (Man city), Garrat (Crewe), Morgam (Portsmouth), Henshall (Man city), Redmond (Birmingham), Turgott (West Ham), Regan, Dunn, Belford (All Liverpool). 3 crewe players played in under 17 world cup - is their academy better than saints? i dont mean this post negitavely - i think the saints academy, facilites etc is good but do some overhype it? Thoughts please
I think the new structure we have for the Youth will show properly a few years down the line. We only reorganised it, what....before last season? I still think it is one of the best in the country. The past couple of years may not have been so fruitful bar AOC, but all the signs are that the newest batch is full of talent. And don't forget, Crewe's youth academy ain't half bad either. You think about the players that have come through, like Ashton and Murphy recently who have went right to the top. And bear in mind a number of their younger players are poached by bigger clubs at a younger age too. I think you've been a bit unkind to Crewe
It's a hit and miss business and all clubs, even the biggest, have lean spells. Let's face it, even Man Utd's youth team has produced very little in the last 10 years. Arsenal poach most of their players from either UK or European academies, Chelsea are much the same. Saints academy 8-10 years ago was doing the same thing, we bought Walcott, Blackstock, Mills brothers, Lallana, Best, McGoldrick and others from other academies. International call ups at U16,U17,U18 etc etc mean very little. The FA coaches of those teams are mostly from an amateur background, lets face it, if they were that good a youth coach, they'd be employed by a top team's academy. I'm sure you can look back at England youth teams over the last 20 years and only a handful of players will stand out as well known. The Academy is bringing kids through from the age of 7 or 8. It's amazing to think that a U18 youth player that most of us have never heard of, has actually been with the club for 10 years or more. A lot can happen in those 10 years, it's not an exact science to spot talent from what are actually just little kids. When you throw a spanner into that process like administration and all the rest that happened over 5 years at Saints, then it can have a big effect on the Academy. I think twice now we've had a complete overhaul of the coaches and scouts in the last 5 years, so that will effect the progression of players in the system. Plus, without those scouts, nippers would have bound to have gone to other clubs instead of us at that time. It is impossible to expect Saints academy to produce a wonder-kid every single season. No club does, not even Barcelona.
Would also add in regard to England youth set up selection and management... just look who is charge of the U21's, Stuart Pearce. Who IMHO is absolutely useless.
Expectation levels are too high. Everyone wants their little Johnny to bs a star. It also is hard to get the balance right between giving a 10 or 11 year old professional development and letting them grow in their own environment.
Another way to measure academies is how they do in inter-academy games and the cups. We have a good record there too. Last season, we led the academy table in our region (which included Arsenal and Chelsea) for most of the season and were pipped by Fulham only at the death. I have also wondered why we don't feature in young England sides, but assume either prejudice or possibly that we are better at producing teams than individuals?? It does seem that they only pick Saints players when attention is drawn to them by transfer interest and by then the other players have got used to playing with each other.
When you say academy's are rather hit or miss affairs you would be right. Approximately only about 65/75% of those in an academy will actually make a career out of football. Of that number only 5% will play at a decent level. That is why it was decided to allow schools to play competitive games again so as to generate more players and better coaching at a younger age. Same with cricket. Coaching in all sport in most country's begin at a very early age. Competitiveness is encouraged, not so until recently in our schools. We will not see the benefits of the school changes for probably another 8/10 years. I accept that academy's are different and that youngsters are actually brought to the academy because they have showed talent at football. It is a sad fact that so few actually make it through to a decent grade of football. Whether some time in the not too distant future that changes is anyone's guess.
Bedders has made the point that few go through to top clubs. Bearing that in mind, another measure of an academy is how it prepares the lads for life outside where they may end up playing football part-time or as a hobby alongside holding a job. The students are encouraged to study, behave, take responsibility for themselves and, importantly, learn to cope with disappointment..a good grounding for life. Doesn't bring money into the club but an important service to the community.
I voted for one of the best in the countries for a few reasons, we are constantly bringing up very good championship/premiership class players even though we have been in league 1 and bottom half championship for the last few years. Obviosily if we were in the premiership we might be bringing in even more valuable youngsters like we did with bale, walcott etc. Another reason is we have a high majority of british/english players in the youth teams, and it's great to see us not really stealing players from other countries and looking for more local born players.
Anyone seen anything going on at the training ground. It's gone a bit quiet since the plans were accepted, but hopefully someone on here lives nearby and might have some news.
Good players are overlooked at every international level. The Southampton youth system is hyped, the Individuals on the whole aren't other than someone on an internet forum saying player X is pretty good. The selection pool at u17 and u19 level is enormous and it it is a logistical impossibility to scout everyone thoroughly to work out what the best team is. James Ward-Prowse and Luke Shaw represented the u17s this season, Chamberlain represented the u19s and u21s. Did Chamberlain play for England u17? I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't.
It's been going on for a while. The players are using temporary huts while it is being done. Not sure of how far along it is or when it is due to be finished, but it's defintely in progress.
AOC hasn't got any U17 caps...it seems that the same U17 is picked over and over again, with some players having well over 20 U17 caps...
I think we over rate our academy because we're looking through red tinted specs and Ruppey tried to brainwash us. Theo and Bale were the cream, but people like McGoaldrought,Mills, Best, Gillett, James are journeymen at best. For me the juries out on Lallana and AOC, lets see what progress they make.
We are still doing it arent we, the "meet the new boys" series on OS quote a number of previous clubs for several of the lads, including West Ham, Brighton, Chelsea, Fulham and Swindon. Dont get me wrong, its great they want to come here and clearly we do well at converting older talented youngsters into professional players but I worry that the scouting/coaching at the younger 7-14 range is maybe not so good. I would like to see more Surmans emerging from within the local area.
Our youth systen has always produced good talent. Lowe tried to turn it into Arsenal by bringing in quite a few overseas kids. They've all gone now and I can't remeber any of them making a big impact. It's produced a few very good players and a few more good players. It's fair to say it has been succesful. The aim now is to produce mostly British players to be the future of football and save us buying players. Kids get taken on very young, so it will take a few years to see the full force of the new investment.
Thanks. Glad to hear it. You try to be as positive as possible but people drip drip misinformation about our finances and in the end you wonder. Must be those dark forces that Nicola is always talking about. I swear there are 'saints supporters' that want us to fail to prove themselves right.
