Is The Premier League Really Worth It?

Discussion in 'Cardiff City' started by BrizzleBluebird, May 20, 2019.

  1. BrizzleBluebird

    BrizzleBluebird Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2011
    Messages:
    319
    Likes Received:
    166
    OK, so, a topic that has been covered before in many respects but having read a bloody good book while on holiday recently called "The Ugly Game", I figured I'd try pose the question with a slightly different angle.

    I'm going to use our little cousins down the road as a shining example of another club "chasing the dream" and will also echo some of the book by utilising some comparisons to NFL (yep the OTHER football).

    When we look at the Jacks (ugly buggers I know but bear with me), they were the epitome of a well run club. Bought small, sold big, didn't overstretch themselves and grew into a stable Premier League club.
    They'll point to sales and underinvestment by the American owners and yet money (until recently) has been spent by paying big wages, large ish transfer fees and so forth in their attempts to maintain their status.
    Seven years of living the dream and now they look very much like a basket case of a club, potentially going the same way as soon many others (Bolton, Leeds, Birmingham, Blackpool, Blackburn even Villa were on the brink until new investment came in...) the list is very long indeed.

    So, this brings me on the the biased set up of the Premier League (and some of the books points).
    Now I'm not an expert on the governance and structuring of the league and the book only went up to 2014, however, when you look at the prize money and TV revenue split, of course the big clubs cream in the most.
    FFP is structured to favour big, well attended money making clubs.
    The whole thing is geared to maintaining the stalus quo for the big clubs, keeping the rest of us as mere cannon fodder unless we get ourselves a billionaire ready to spend money beyond the clubs true means, all the while the marketing folks at the FA keep whipping fans up into frenzies, demanding that their clubs spend more and brainwashing generations into believing the Premier League is the best all and end all....

    Now look at the NFL. TV revenue shared equally across all teams. There is no prize money for winning the Superbowl, you just get the glory of being the best.
    There's a wage bill cap, but also a rule to say you need to spend a minimum of 90% of the wage budget, just to stop owners fleecing the club.
    Then you get the draft pick, where the weakest teams get first dabs on new young talent, and you have to be careful balancing paying for star players whilst affording to build the rest of your squad in a suitable way.
    Imagine Liverpool having to make a choice between one of Salah, Mane, Firmino and van Dyke as they couldn't bust their salary cap!

    Now I know it's fanciful to think the football could ever be turned around and the sporting integrity brought back, especially to the degree in which it exists in the NFL but should we really be hoping for a promotion push again next year or should we hope for stability and financial security for our club until such time as the greedy, self serving big clubs bugger off to an invite only European Super League and the football league could then perhaps restructure in a fairer way?

    Phew... and pause for breath.
     
    #1
  2. FrankfurterBlue

    FrankfurterBlue Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2011
    Messages:
    1,419
    Likes Received:
    607
    Interesting post. And worthy of wider discussion with input from other forums.
    n the final point (I need more time for the main body!), I reckon that if this funny league was set up, the bi earner for them would be the TV rights, since the fan input can only be home games and all games will have a big majority of home fans due to cost and time of travel.
    Therefore that will take the big money out of the Prem, I'm guessing. World-wide interest will transfer to the Europe league.
     
    #2
    Dai Jones and BluefromBridgend like this.
  3. Dai Jones

    Dai Jones Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2011
    Messages:
    7,373
    Likes Received:
    962
    European Super League must be a no go, that would make the top 4 or 5 bigger and richer with the rest fighting for a smaller pot.

    It's hard enough now for the "smaller clubs" to break into the top few, Leicester did it for one season and others have had their 3 mins of fame but there is no chance that anyone out of the top 7 (Man City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Spurs. Arsenal, Man Utd & Everton) would get into the European Super League.
     
    #3
    clingo likes this.
  4. clingo

    clingo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2011
    Messages:
    1,100
    Likes Received:
    239
    Great piece Brizzle and I'm sure you are ecoing the thoughts of many real football fans.

    There is no question that the game needs radical change because at the moment success is simply bought. We've probably all had words to say about how the Scottish professional leagues are just about two clubs, well proportionately the PL is even worse. The trouble is, change can only be brought about if there is a will and a consensus among stakeholders. Unfortunately, money is the driving force for most of the powerful stakeholders and the development of a competitive football structure is of no interest. None of the fat cats will want change as they're too heavily invested financially.

    Personally, and I know I'm an idealist living in cloud cuckoo land, I'd like to see a cap on transfer fees and wages, the outlawing of agents and TV rights restricted to a very few live matches, and even then coverage of all the divisions of the EFL as part of the contractual responsibility. Unfortunately, there's no chance of getting that in place in this country, let alone getting European and world wide agreement. I fear footballis going to have to crash before it becomes a sport again.

    In the meantime, we strive to be the best we can and support our local team. So, we're doing our bit.
     
    #4
    Oldsparkey and BrizzleBluebird like this.
  5. BrizzleBluebird

    BrizzleBluebird Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2011
    Messages:
    319
    Likes Received:
    166
    Clingo, I fear you and I are both living in hope of cloud cuckoo land.

    The tv revenue should be divided up equally amongst all 92 clubs in truth.
    A world wide salary budget cap would be nirvana as even small clubs could then build towards something sustainable and stand a chance of holding onto some of their own talent rather than watching them walk away in order to treble their wages and sit on the bench or be loaned out year after year from clubs like Chelsea.

    Even the academy system is rigged to favour "elite" clubs these days, where the compensation paid to non-elite clubs is so pitiful that the big clubs are risking practically nothing when they "harvest" young talent.

    The BBC ran an article the other week asking if the title race was the best ever.... of course it wasn't, it was a 2 horse race for months between 2 of the biggest spenders in world football in a division which is marketed as one of the best in the world but in fact is becoming more and more divided.
     
    #5
    clingo likes this.
  6. Oldsparkey

    Oldsparkey Well-Known Member
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2011
    Messages:
    16,158
    Likes Received:
    3,358
    Good thread Brizz. <ok>

    It's been said for a long time that the distribution of the wealth generated by televised football rights is hugely unfair to the grass roots of the game and skewed toward top end success. This is deliberate and a direct result of the EPL wanting its' Champion's League entrants to achieve success in Europe and thus perpetuate the cycle.

    The pursuit of such "success" is crippling the game below the top half dozen elitist clubs and the aspiration of others to join them will never be fulfilled whilst this current scenario exists. I hate legislation in the game and am loathe to advocate some sort of outside interference at a political level, but how else can this be resolved?

    We are relying on the self policing of vast amounts of wealth and the fat cats who control the top clubs are broadly supported by the EPL in the distribution of it's income. Whilst 24 Championship clubs (well some of them anyway) will once again be battling to get to this "promised land" again this season, the reality of joining its' ranks is daunting.

    This is what makes the Championship easily the best division in which to compete. Half the teams have a realistic chance of promotion whilst the other half will be glad to stay there and avoid the drop. Fantastic competition and after last season, I for one can't wait - at least we'll have something to play for rather than just survival. That's genuinely not sour grapes because we failed to stay up either..
     
    #6
    clingo likes this.
  7. BluefromBridgend

    BluefromBridgend Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    9,583
    Likes Received:
    1,052
    A great thought provoking thread Brizzle. <ok>

    Unlike others on here I don't go along with a lot of what you say.

    Whichever way you cut it, business, sport, etc the biggest and best always rise to the top. It's the staying there that is the tough bit. Look at Man U. A sad mess compared to Fergie time. Chelsea and Arsenal looked to be developing dynasties but are not so strong now. It has taken Liverpool donkey's years to get back to where they are now.

    It used to be the big 5 but Tottenham have clawed their way in to make it a 6 in the last 5 years and in doing so have spent considerably less on players than the others.

    I know I'm talking about the top 6 but Leicester shook them all up 3 years ago. It didn't last but it shows it is possible and also emphasises the many variables that can cause a change of fortunes at a club - change of owner and/or manager, loss of key players who are inadequately replaced, player unrest due to wage structures etc, signing a player who upsets the balance of the changing room and so on.

    City have succeeded in ironing out many of those variables with Guardiola as the final piece in the jigsaw. Sure as eggs is eggs it will not last forever and that is the beauty of the game. Guardiola will not be there forever.

    I love the Prem and the opportunity to see some of the best players in the world up close. It is a great disappointment to be going down and revisiting many of the clubs we left 2 years ago.

    In saying all that I will be back next season and hope NW can re build a squad to take us back up again.
     
    #7
  8. Oldsparkey

    Oldsparkey Well-Known Member
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2011
    Messages:
    16,158
    Likes Received:
    3,358
    Sorry Bluey - I didn't go along to the CCS last season to see my club rolled into the ground by Man City, Spurs and Man Utd in particular - I went there because I wanted to see them able to compete against allcomers. You can point to the Chelsea game as being unlucky but you can see the difference in standards even further down the table as well.

    I'm only talking about our homes games here as they're the ones I pay to watch first hand and sit through in real time. We weren't good enough (maybe tactically as well as at player level) to compete with teams like Watford, Everton and Palace, though we got results against Wolves,West Ham and Bournemouth, but lost to all those away. The level of consistency is way off what it needs to be and until that and the lack of skill factor are addressed, it wont change.

    We weren't just struggling to stay up those last half dozen games - we were doing it all season. You can put that down to owner budget decisions, manager/coaching, and/or players, but the bottom line is we were not good enough and it showed.

    With this manager and squad, the Championship is where we belong, and until some fundamental decisions are taken as to which way the club is going to go, in all honesty I'll be happier there competing rather than back in the Premier League as whipping boys.

    No amount of marvelling at the skills of opposition players will cut it for me. I go there to see my team compete and go home having got a result through skill as well as effort. At the mo, we'll only get that in the Championship.

    Not having a go at your opinion at all Bluey - just putiing up mine. <ok>
     
    #8
    BluefromBridgend likes this.
  9. BluefromBridgend

    BluefromBridgend Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    9,583
    Likes Received:
    1,052
    No problems Sparks. It is a discussion forum and would be bloody boring if we always agreed.

    Of course I want to see City win and very little gives more pleasure than turning over a big team - beating the Jacks the main exception.

    However if we can't beat the bigger clubs then I try and draw some satisfaction from watching world class players first hand and at £12 per game for my ST that's a bargain. Even more of a bargain in the Championship at £9 a game.

    I used to get upset at us losing, at any level, but the cat got fed up at the kicking it got when I arrived home. The little bugger wanted to report me to the RSPCA!!!

    I try to maintain a more even approach now and if that means having some respect for the opposition then so be it.

    Gone a bit off topic with my rambling but just trying to further emphasise my opinion that I like the Prem as it stands and would prefer us to be there. Yes, the blood and thunder, or should I say thud and blunder, of the Championship can be very entertaining but give me the Prem, with City.
     
    #9
    Oldsparkey likes this.
  10. Oldsparkey

    Oldsparkey Well-Known Member
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2011
    Messages:
    16,158
    Likes Received:
    3,358
    Yes - City in the Prem but being able to compete with a reasonable chance of staying there would be fine for me too - this time around we didn't.

    Let's face it, the likes of you and me and our club are not going to change the structure and finances of the EPL.

    However, we can go someway toward helping ourselves to become realistic members of that division. Going up and trying to do the same thing again would do my head in. <ok>
     
    #10
    BluefromBridgend likes this.

  11. ninian opinion

    ninian opinion Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2011
    Messages:
    3,568
    Likes Received:
    699
    I’ll miss the full stadium rocking when we won but won’t miss the terrible drubbings when the games over in the 1st half
     
    #11
  12. BrizzleBluebird

    BrizzleBluebird Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2011
    Messages:
    319
    Likes Received:
    166
    Some great responses guys and good to see healthy debate.

    I knew someone would mention Leicester but to my mind as much as that was a fantastic achievement it hasn't changed the status quo. When they won it the stars all aligned as every big clubs was in transition in some shape or form.
    Don't get me wrong, still an incredible thing but apart from them and Blackburn in 1992 (who were the original money bags winner anyhow) how many teams from outside the top 5 or 6 have made a sustained challenge?

    I'm willing the European Super League to be created and the Champions League (complete misnomer of a title and a totally devalued competition in my eyes being as 4th is good enough to qualify - again aimed at ploughing more money into the big clubs coffers) to be disbanded.

    Any reformatted league may not get the coverage and attract the money of the Euro League and it won't attract the "best" players but personally I'd rather see decent, open competition and players like Gunnar on his £25k a week (or whatever he earns) busting his guts than a sulking Pogba on his £300k or a surly Sturridge or even average players like Walcott earning a fortune at fans expense.

    To echo Sparky, I go to watch my team play, I don't care if we are playing Liverpool or Lincoln, Man City or Macclesfield, and at the risk of sounding like a grumpy old git, I'd like to see EVERYONE stand a chance of actually doing something <cheers>
     
    #12
    clingo and ccfcremotesupport like this.
  13. ccfcremotesupport

    ccfcremotesupport Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2011
    Messages:
    6,929
    Likes Received:
    1,242
    Unless those top half a dozen teams are taken out of the equation there will always be great inequality.
    Even then, would the next half dozen fill the void.
    As to the question "is it worth it?", you end up with the position that if it isn't, why bother at all. You might as well not try to win the championship.
    I suppose the compromise was DJs time in charge. In and around the playoffs, but not winning them.
     
    #13
    clingo likes this.
  14. taffthefish

    taffthefish Well-Known Member
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2011
    Messages:
    4,268
    Likes Received:
    225
    From my point of view, yes, it is worth it.
    On both occasions we made it to the premier league, I had no expectations of us finishing higher than 16th place.
    MM got us promoted from a poor championship and someof our football that season was woeful. I think he bought the players needed that would, with good luck and a fair wind, keep us up. Off the field issues didn't help our cause and I still maintain MM is a twat.
    Our last promotion was against all the odds and I was overjoyed we'd made it. However, our dealings in the transfer market were poor, and our style of play didn't help us.
    However, the parachute payments certainly boosted our financial position, along with VT's cost cutting. On the field it was dire at times with OGS, [forget his name] and dear old Russell Slade.
    Neil Warnock got us promoted with a mixed bag of good & awful football. Had we not been promoted it is possible the gate receipts would have suffered. As it was we had two seasons of relative prosperity which helped (imo) keep VT at the helm.
    I, along with others, feel NW played some negative tactics against teams we should be going all out to try and beat. We were totally outclassed by the bigger and on occasion the not so big teams. This was down to poor tactics and a team of championship footballers, with the odd exception.
    Do I prefer the Premier League to the Championship? No, the Championship is a better game of football with more passion in it. However, I would like to see us play the top sides on a more even playing field.
     
    #14
  15. Hilts24

    Hilts24 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2011
    Messages:
    2,830
    Likes Received:
    635
    Malky McKay and Neil Warnock did sensational jobs.

    Im not buying into poor Championships.

    Both put together superb Championship sides aided by tactical knowledge that had been missing for years.

    We blew it last time by appointing the useless one mid season. When we are Champions in less than 12 months we will be in a stronger position to go again.
     
    #15
  16. ninian opinion

    ninian opinion Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2011
    Messages:
    3,568
    Likes Received:
    699
  17. ccfcremotesupport

    ccfcremotesupport Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2011
    Messages:
    6,929
    Likes Received:
    1,242
    #17
  18. Hilts24

    Hilts24 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2011
    Messages:
    2,830
    Likes Received:
    635
    Dont forget the 30 odd Hedge Fund Investors. Wayne Rooneys wages and helping DC Washingtons campaign.<laugh><laugh><laugh>

    Sold out by their own fans.

    Whats the follow up to their cringeworthy movie going to be called?<laugh>
     
    #18
  19. ccfcremotesupport

    ccfcremotesupport Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2011
    Messages:
    6,929
    Likes Received:
    1,242
    The Prince and the pauper?

    <doh>
     
    #19
  20. ninian opinion

    ninian opinion Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2011
    Messages:
    3,568
    Likes Received:
    699

    Attached Files:

    #20

Share This Page