Excellent article from MFW! http://norwichcity.myfootballwriter...and-a-key-member-of-alex-neils-inner-circle/?
Good read that. I for one am happy with Russ at CB. Especially alongside a more 'typically-built' CB (like Bassong for example).
Good piece - but he does tend to overlook the all too common mistakes that Martin makes. In the play off semi, for example, he headed a routine CB clearance straight to a binner, offering them a lifeline back into the game. Fortunately, on that occasion it didn't cost us. Row 'Z' in the stand of his choice would have been far preferable in such a dangerous position / such a crucial match? I still think we need - and will sign another experienced CB this window. Whether he will cover cover for Russ, or the other way round, remains to be seen.
Probably. Nothing against Martin, but I just don't see him and Bassong as a quality premiership pairing. I think we will struggle with Martin playing as a first choice CB.
Absolutely. In the top division, the calibre of the opponents will increase and we need to make sure our ability to hold them at bay increases pro rata
Stick with Martin. His obvious weaknesses are his strength and his heading. These will be much less of an issue in the PL and he's formed a superb partnership with Bassong. It's very much like the Whits critics - one little mistake and they get pounced on. The fact is that Rusty was broadly speaking superb last season, and is one of the few standout leaders on the pitch. His strengths, along with leadership, are his ability to read the game and his mobility - both of which will be essential in the PL especially when you consider our first season under Lambert we had Elliot Ward and Steven Whitbread...
I don't think people struggle with the concept. But I would agree that many struggle with the idea that Martin is a thoroughly modern CB. It's a bit unfair to say that Martin gets pounced on when he makes one little mistake. He made plenty of mistakes last year that cost us. I agree that he may have been one of our stand out leaders last season, although I wouldn't say he was one of our stand out players. His positioning and decision making on occasions is poor and whilst he reads the game well when going forward I wouldn't say he does this with defending.
Equally, I would say Bassong made quite a few mistakes. However, I can remember at least a few of them being covered by Russ/Whittaker/Olsson/Tettey, and not directly costing us.
Rusty is, at best, a competent CB. But we should be looking for a player at least one level up to compete on the EPL. The attacking quality we will face next season bears no resemblance to that which we have faced this last season.
As I say, I think we will have to agree to disagree , particularly re his positioning and decision making. Although I accept he has made a few poor decisions, I do not think this is beyond the usual for a decent PL defender (look at some of the transfers people like e.g. Curtis Davies or Robert Huth...) and if he wasn't making mistakes he wouldn't be playing for us...
I'm not sure how you can say that, because it is exactly what happens! The Ipswich game aside (which has already been mentioned half a dozen times in this thread alone, which kinda emphasises the point) can you remember some of these "plenty" of mistakes that cost us, because I can't remember too many personally.
The point has been made repeatedly, so I'll try to be brief, but the attacking quality he faces next season is actually better suited to his strengths (i.e. mobility, awareness and positioning) than the Championship (where you more often get lumbering bullying hulks which he really struggles against).
Difficult for me as I have consistently felt that our best back four would have been Martin-Bassong-Ryben-Olsson given that I feel that Rusty is a better RB than Whits and a fit Ryben a better CH than Rusty. However post AN appointment I have had to eat my words re Whits as I have been pretty surprised at how well he has played and maybe Rusty would no longer be my 1st choice RB and Ryben just does not seem to be fit for long enough to make the progress and push himself into the first team as I felt he would as I think he has an enormous amount of potential but I now wonder if he will ever become the player I thought he could be. Much as I like Rusty and what he brings to the dressing room and the team in terms of personality I just don't seem him as having the basic tools to be a decent CB in the Premier League - he lacks both strength and pace and whilst he can compensate for this somewhat by his footballing intelligence and positional sense I think we need someone with more physical attributes. All that being said both AN and WGS both of whom I rate highly consider him good enough to play for his club and national side in that position then who am I to argue?
One thing about the Ryan Bennett/Bassong pairing - CBs are no longer seen as playing both sides comfortably. They are predominantly a right-sided or a left-sided CB, or at least that is the tendency these days and certainly how we have been since Hughton came in. Bennett is understudy to Bassong, not Martin - any understudy to Marting will likely be right-footed. Also, for balance, received wisdom is you have one big strong dominant in the air CB and one speedy mobile CB. So if we're going to have a different right CB next to Bassong, they should probably fit into the latter category (i.e. not have more physical attributes) as Bassong is our "big, strong" CB. Obviously a massive generalisation, and if injuries must obviously you go with what CBs you have, but for best defensive balance and a first choice it is a left-CB, a right-CB and they bring different things to the table.
No its not and I can't rattle off a long detailed list and to be honest it wouldn't matter or change anyones opinion if I could. However I was critical of Martin well before the Ipswich game and I'm sure if a looked back through previous threads I would find other examples where Martin has been a fault. I would counter this viewby saying that at times there is an almost evangelical belief on the part of some posters that some players can do no wrong i.e. Martin, Hoolahan I haven't said Martin is useless nor have I said that he couldn't do us a job at CB on ocassions. I just don't see him and Bassong being a good enough first choice CB partnership if we are going to suceed in the premiership. They certainly weren't good enough last time and I don't really seen whats changed since then. I think in all areas of the team we are stronger than we were when we went down except defence where we are about the same. So if I was looking to strengten the team I think we need to improve the overall strength of our defence so for me another CB who is of better quality than those we currently have and a LB to compete with Olsson should be my priority. I would keep Martin to compete with Whittaker & the new CB for a place in the starting line up.
I don't think for a moment that anyone has suggested you weren't critical of Martin for some time. That's the point, we know you're predisposed against him. I also don't think for a moment anyone is suggesting Martin hasn't made multiple errors. But I'll repeat for the nth time, all CBs make errors, those that make very few play at the very highest level. The fact is that Martin actually makes very few errors other than in terms of his strength and heading the ball, which we've already I think agreed is his key weakness. I can't remember Martin making a single error (although there must be at least one) that wasn't to do with his strength or heading of the ball. Which goes to show that other than his key weakness, everything else he brings is pretty bloody good. But some people can't or don't want to see the wood from the trees. Oh come on that is desperate bullshit. Especially because of the two players you chose, who have at times been universally criticised! The fact is that some people criticised them, but then scratched their heads when our manager kept playing them and looked again. This dogmatic refusal to change your mind about players is so frustrating - you can be wrong you know and Neil certainly thinks you are. I certainly was about Whittaker and Martin and have changed my mind.
I think Whitts is the stand out improvement but also Bradders has become much more consistent, there were times pre AN that he ran round like a headless chicken, he is now settled and is one of our biggest threats!
I'm not against Martin. I just don't think his performances at CB justify the belief that some posters have in him. Indeed I've always said that he could do a job for us at CB on ocassions, I just don't think him & Bassong are a premier league CB partnership. Of the two Bassong is the only one that on his day is of premiership quality and it is noticable that Martin's performances tended to be better when playing alongside him. I think since last time we were in the premiership we have gained strength in depth in midfield & up front but at best we are no stronger in defense, particularly for CB's. So my priority would be to strengthen in this area and I would do this by buying a CB who is of better quality than what we have and of Bassong & Martin. I think the Martin role is the one we should look to upgrade. I would prefer Martin to play at RB although with Whittaker's improving performances I'm not sure he'd start. I am definately not saying let him go as we would need him to push the new CB for their place and to compete for the RB position. In part my last post was in response to TMC's post "The Ipswich game aside (which has already been mentioned half a dozen times in this thread alone, which kinda emphasises the point) can you remember some of these "plenty" of mistakes that cost us, because I can't remember too many personally". I think there are posters that because Martin is a likeable bloke who is very committed give him the benefit of the doubt more than some other players. Whittaker is a great example where some posters in my view have been over critical. Also Johnson to a lesser degree. It's also interesting that Howson doesn't seem to get much praise, despite the fact that our performances have improved considerably since he came back from injury. So in response to the question raised by this post IS RUSTY A SHOO IN AT CB? I stick by my original response "Probably. Nothing against Martin, but I just don't see him and Bassong as a quality premiership pairing. I think we will struggle with Martin playing as a first choice CB." As an aside I wish I could do that thing of putting more than one quote in a post
