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Independence

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Null, Oct 22, 2015.

  1. Null

    Null Well-Known Member
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    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34599998

    A row has erupted over plans to bring in "English votes for English laws", as MPs debate the proposals.

    MPs from English seats will get an effective veto on bills that apply to England only under the plans.

    Ministers say their "fair and balanced" proposals will "give the English more say over their own destiny".

    But Labour and the SNP oppose the plans. The SNP said they "simply exacerbate the further alienation of Scotland from the UK Parliament".

    Labour said they risked creating "two tiers" of MPs at Westminster.

    The issue of Scottish MPs voting on English-only laws has intensified with more powers being devolved to the Scottish Parliament after last year's independence referendum.

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    Ministers say their solution will address the long-standing anomaly - known as the West Lothian Question - by which Scottish MPs can vote on issues such as health and education affecting only England - or England and Wales - but the House of Commons has no say on similar matters relating to Scotland, where such policies are devolved.

    Under the reforms, an additional parliamentary stage, called a grand committee, would allow English, or English and Welsh, MPs to scrutinise bills without the involvement of Scottish MPs.

    'Politicising Speaker'
    These MPs would also be able to veto the legislation before all MPs from across the United Kingdom voted in the bill's final readings.

    It would be for the Speaker to decide which bills, or parts of bills, applied just in England, or England and Wales.

    Ministers had to amend their plans - first unveiled in July - after criticism from opposition MPs, including over the time allowed for scrutiny, and a vote on them was delayed.

    The revised proposals, containing minor changes concerning Budget measures, will now go before the Commons.

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    What is the row about?
    There's growing disquiet about the way the current set-up works, among both the public and MPs themselves.

    Despite the devolution of powers to Scotland in the late 1990s, Scottish MPs at Westminster can still vote on issues affecting England only, such as its health and education policies. English MPs have no such power over Scotland.

    English votes for English laws: What's going on?

    Ministers say the new system will be reviewed after 12 months.

    Commons Leader Chris Grayling said: "We are determined to strengthen the union - we are devolving more powers across the United Kingdom, and now is the time to give the English more say over their own destiny."

    He said the proposals provided "a fair balance" between English and UK-wide interests.

    And he insisted that the proposals would not put the Speaker under too much political pressure and lead to confusion.

    "It's not complicated at all, this is something that would have happened anyway with money bills, with amendments, whether to grant an urgent question or not," he told BBC Radio 4's Today programme.

    "The Speakers job, is to look at what's laid in front of him and say should be we do that, or should we not do that."

    But SNP MP Pete Wishart called the proposals "an unworkable dog's breakfast" that had no support from any party in the Commons.

    He added: "They will make Scottish MPs second class in the unitary UK Parliament, they will politicise the office of Speaker in forcing him to take the decision to exclude Scottish MPs from bills and they create an unnecessary new level of Parliamentary procedure in a very tight Parliamentary timetable."

    He said the government should set up an English Parliament instead, telling Today the plans were an attempt to "change the unitary Parliament of the UK into a quasi English Parliament".

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    Image captionIt will be for Speaker John Bercow to decide whether legislation applies just in England
    Labour is expected to table amendments to the proposals as well as voting against them.

    Shadow Commons leader Chris Bryant said Labour backed "an English voice in Parliament" but did not want "an English veto".

    The plans as they stand would "create two tiers of MPs which will threaten the union and set England against Scotland", he added.

    On Monday, a committee of MPs said the reforms should be piloted on a limited number of bills over the coming year.

    The Commons Procedure Committee said the existing proposals risked proving "burdensome" and should be simplified.
     
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  2. Mind The Duck

    Mind The Duck Well-Known Member

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    I think only the English should respond to this.... :$
     
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  3. pompeymeowth

    pompeymeowth Prepare for trouble x
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    There won't be many replies then as most of us don't care about it. I'm English but I don't need to go round wearing silly clothes to prove it.

    Except in Morris dancing season of course.
     
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  4. gas

    gas ACCOUNT DELETED
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    meh
     
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  5. Null

    Null Well-Known Member
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    ****
     
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  6. Gambol

    Gambol George Clooney's wee brother

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    The Nigels going for stealth independence <laugh>
     
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  7. Ciaran

    Ciaran Going for 55

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    I think it makes sense. Why should a Belfast MP be able to make decisions about what happens in England but an English MP not be able to make decisions about what happens in Belfast.
     
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  8. Gambol

    Gambol George Clooney's wee brother

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    Cos that's the way we like it <grr>
     
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  9. Ciaran

    Ciaran Going for 55

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    Whats it called? The west Lothian question?
     
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  10. Gambol

    Gambol George Clooney's wee brother

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    I think they call it "The West Lothian Question". Yer welcome.
     
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  11. Archers Road

    Archers Road Urban Spaceman

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    None of this will matter when the reptiles reveal their plans for planet earth.
     
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  12. ERINBLACK

    ERINBLACK Well-Known Member

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    Totally agree.
     
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  13. Black Caviar

    Black Caviar 1 of the top judges in Europe

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    .
     
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    Last edited: Nov 2, 2021
  14. Black Caviar

    Black Caviar 1 of the top judges in Europe

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  15. Ciaran

    Ciaran Going for 55

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    Thanks, Drew.
     
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  16. A.L.D.O 4.1

    A.L.D.O 4.1 1 of the top defendants in Europe

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    Westminster should be barred from making any laws because they are ****e at it. I'm sure my Nigel brothers will agree with this.
     
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  17. Null

    Null Well-Known Member
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    Agree ... Can't have it both ways . Daft scotch ****s
     
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  18. Ciaran

    Ciaran Going for 55

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    Been a problem for decades. Dunno why the Nigels have put up with it so long.
     
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  19. ERINBLACK

    ERINBLACK Well-Known Member

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    Correct.

    The SNP are hypocritical racists.

    The only good thing about Sturgeon is caviar.
     
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  20. Ciaran

    Ciaran Going for 55

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    All politicians are hypocritical but the SNP are not racist.
     
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