Over the past few days I've seen some worrying developments at ER, but I've been told to go with it and trust Neil, "he knows what he's doing". Yesterday morning Clayton was one of our best players and someone to build a team around, now he's a luxury not even worth a starter's wage, all because Neil said so. There are already suggestions that our top scorer Ross McCormack will be following him out the door if Warnock gets his way, being replaced by none other than the spitting wonder Diouf, a player we all despised until Colin wanted to sign him, now maybe he's not so bad after all. Warnock also wants to loan out young Zac Thompson, while Michael Brown has been offered an "extremely reduced" contract, meaning we could potentially be left with only Danny Pugh (a player who, it should be noted, is on the same wages it was determined Adam Clayton isn't worth) to play CM. We also know that Aidy White is as good as gone, having demanded £15k/w, while we're not exactly showing the ambition Robert Snodgrass is demanding from the club. This could leave us with a skeletal squad with a notoriously tight chairman funding the rebuild. Even if we build a team with some semblance of promotion quality, will it gel in time? A fellow poster commented on Warnock's actions with "this isn't Simon Grayson we're talking about", this got me thinking; if this was Simon Grayson, if this was any other manager in fact, would we be happy with what was going on? I could yet be proved wrong, and I'm all for trusting an experienced manager, but when does trust turn into blind faith?
One can only assume that Warnock has been given full support from Bates to have a major clear out. And you must therefore assume that Warnock has been promised a considerable kitty from Bates to rebuild the team. Somehow i cant see the later TBH. so i sincerely hope Colin knows what he is doing. i for one would not trust Bates to come forth with the dosh no matter how many promises he has made. He also wants the squad trimmed to 21/22 players and it has been said that you have given professional contracts to 6 of your youth players. So if you off load 11 and give 6 new professional contracts surley that means there is no room for to many to come in. i dont know how many you had in your squad but if you minus 11 and add 6 how many have you got If this was happening at my club i would be very very worried
Another worry was Bates made it clear you will not be carrying passengers. so that makes me think that if those 11 dont all go Bates is going to use that as a ploy to say get rid then you can have new.. an excuse not to sign players. 21/22 players is not enough.
I agree Simon but even if none sign or play for the first team whats 11 from your current squad No. ?
Mighty, I already ran the numbers and we're already done with our transfer activity. We've released the players who's contracts expired, signed a load of youth from the academy and we're relying on being able to sell players who are anywhere between reasonably talented and complete **** to make sure our squad doesn't except bates ideal size and keep the wage bill as low as possible.
As a person I can't stand bates, as a person I am not keen on Warnock and as a person/sportsman I strongly dislike Diouf. Being able to change any of those things is not possible, I have to live with it and go with it or support another team which again, is not possible. On a brighter note it isn't Bates forcing the hand of Clayton, it would seem the decision is with Neil whom despite my dislike for him as a person I cannot doubt his ability as a manager. As a player I believe Clayton is decent to pretty good, nothing over special but agree he could be one day and I also believe he is far better than Pugh and Brown. Diouf as a goal scorer is far better than Forssell and Paynter - Will he cause a massive unrest in the dressing room - I doubt it, I think Warnock is strong enough to handle him, could he cost us a match with his on the field antics, I believe so. Would I prefer Leeds not to sign him yes but again, Warnock was appointed as the new manager not I and the available funds are not going to stretch to a Beckford return no matter how much I would love to see that. After the first 5-6 matches of the new season, that is when trust starts to waiver if all the decisions Warnock is making now fall apart. Look at it another way, say Warnock gave Clayton his new contract, we sign Pearce and we sign one other player and keep most of last seasons team, we know for sure it would not be deep enough changes. What Warnock is doing is a no lose gamble, we either finish 14th again or we challenge for promotion, Becchio, Snodgrass, White, Clayton, Lees, Lonergan, McCormack +4 players are nowhere near good enough as a collective, we have seen that. Maybe for a one off game they are but not the course of a season.
That's why you add to them. You don't replace them completely, especially with players like Diouf, who would easily cost us more points with his attitude than he would gain with his ability IMO.
Some fans will get on board with anything if it means they don't have to question what is going on. It is literally like religion. Ristac, where on earth do you get this blind optimism from? Listen to Warnock's interview. You can hear the frustration in his voice. He stated a few weeks ago he was very keen to get Clayton on board. Clayton has expressed his desire to sign a contract. He has also stated publicly that £15k a week is WAY off the mark and you know what? I believe him. So if Warnock is on board and Clayton is on board, then the season ends and the club gets to work on contract business, then a week later Warnock is no longer on board - what does that tell you? Neither of them have changed their minds. Warnock has been told he can't keep Clayton on the "ridiculous" wage he wants (which I heard is only the same as Danny Pugh, yet we're keeping Danny Pugh and he's dogshit? - so much for getting rid of Grayson's deadwood and waste of money) and reluctantly made a statement as if to say "he wanted too much for what he offers". Whoever you bring in with the transfer fee will NOT be better, we'll end up paying more for the same quality. Bates is a ****ing idiot, if he wants to keep pushing forward with this pathetic rummaging around in bins hoping someone accidentally binned a 10er, at least KEEP the players we manage to find out of nowhere. ****ing sick of this, the fans are starting to piss me off more than bates.
Well I'm here to piss you off again. You're doing my head in. Carry on posting in this manner and you're going to put yourself in a straightjacket. Calm down, old boy, and let the season unfold. Btw, the figure was £9k, not £15k. He's apparently on less than £3k atm.
You're doing my head in with your bone-idleness. I'm ****ing sick of the "wait and see" approach. If you do nothing, nothing will change. That backs up my point. How is £9k a week unreasonable for one of our top players, no matter how inconsistent he's been? He'll do better with more competition. He'll develop further. He's one of the diamonds in the rough we managed to pull out of a steaming pile of ****e, only to sell him on when he has the "cheek" to ask to be paid what he earns. bates ideals in terms of squad size and youth players, assuming the 9 youth players are on average £2k or lower, on a budget of £12 million not including fees (based on this seasons figure) we can afford to pay the other 14 players well over than £15k a week. This is just pathetic stubbornness on the part of the board. Players develop, they get better. If shaun harvey is worth a ****ing 70% pay rise or whatever he got for being incompetent and doing **** all, why isn't a player who plays some of our better football and actually provides the entertainment we pay so much to watch worth a pay rise? And stop ****ing telling me to calm down and just watch it unfold. I've no faith for a reason, I've seen it all before, EVERYBODY has seen it all before and it's unfolding exactly the same way as it did in the past. We're seeing the exact same behaviour as we saw previously, pre transfer window, from bates and now Colin is starting to tow the company line - you're the one that needs the straight jacket, thinking that it's just going to magically turn out differently. Science uses what we know from experience to accurately predict what will happen in certain circumstances. Based on this I am making a valid assumption that we are going to do **** all, instead of being dumb enough to give that pathetic fat **** yet another chance after ****ing up time and time again on the basis that "I trust Colin to magically get signings despite having harvey and bates in the way!". It's not optimism it's ****ing desperation and I'm sick of it.
you're still doing my head in. Can't you answer the question I asked in the other link. How many signings must Warnock complete before you shut up? According to you, he won't make any. We'll see, but answer the ****ing question. Another thing, where did your experience in building a team come from? You make it sound so easy. Perhaps you should call Warnock and offer your services.
This is why I don't respect the opinions of you optimistic, delusional idiots - you cherry pick things I've said, ignore the rest and then twist what I've said. I never said we won't make any signings. We'll make 1 or 2, because that's all the room we've got in the squad. You've done it again, completely ignored the point I was trying to make - I said it doesn't ****ing matter how good Warnock is at team building, it doesn't matter how good he is at scouting and picking out players or whatever, it is all irrelevant when the board of directors fluff the negotiations all the time. Get this through your thick skull, I am not questioning Warnock's ability, I am saying his ability is irrelevant with the constraints in place. Stop constantly bringing it back to the same tired, pointless, arbitrary point. Warnock is not the deciding factor in who we bring in because his first choice targets won't make it through the door after the board of directors fluff the negotiations Where did I mention anything about team building? I didn't. I haven't spoken about actual football in months, I gave up when I realised it didn't make a blind bit of difference with the constraints set in place. I'll put it in the form of a metaphor for you: You can ask the best carpenter in the world to make you the most magnificent furniture the world has ever seen - but if you take away his hammer all you'll get is a ****ing great big pile of DEAD WOOD
Marko, I'm not a delusional idiot, and I'm certainly not thick, btw. I think if you re-read the posts over the last 24 hours, you'll find that I'm suggesting that Warnock knows exactly what he is up against, and will either have dealt with it in advance, or will deal with it when it happens. You are making massive assumptions, based on the past. I agree that this would be reasonable if Grayson was still in post. He's not. Warnock is. Just bide your time. We're not dealing with a wee boy here. You've got to give him a chance to do what he's been doing for decades. As for the team building jibe, I was referencing the fact that you are doing sums with massive and probably incorrect assumptions, believing for example that Warnock is basing his Clayton view on purely finance. Have you not considered that he may already have someone lined up? Perhaps cheaper, perhaps dearer, but more to the point, more able to boss a midfield that Clayton has only managed occasionally? He doesn't have time to develop him. He's going for promotion in 1 year. He wants to build a team and has that team style in his head. Can you see in his head to make decisions for him? I think not. Let him do the job that we all know he's capable of, and lay off the rabid dog stuff for a bit.
Which I was, until his stance started to slowly change and he started saying things that sounded alarmingly like a certain chicken maestro of the Kentuckian variety. I'm like this because he's started down the slippery slope. bates has gotten Warnock to change his stance on at least 1 or 2 things within days of the season ending. Start's with a couple of cracks and before you know it the whole valley is flooded. I'm applying past experience because that is what happened with previous managers, and it's always "In <new manager name> we trust", assuming that somehow the new manager is going to have a good old chinwag with bates and make him change his ways. No matter how good Colin is and how strong a character he is, bates is every bit as stubborn. Also, if what we're hearing about the Barton transfer is true, he doesn't have as much integrity as we thought and will succumb more easily than we think. People like ken bates don't listen to anybody. Doesn't matter how good Colin is, bates knows his threats of walking out are just hot air when he's the slim chance of getting the 8th promotion.
