If you were given a yearling that had impecable breeding, let's just say the son of Zarkava and Sea The Stars, can't think of a more expensive combination. Which current trainer would you choose to train the horse? Also if you could have any current jockey to ride the horse throughout it's career, which one would you choose?
Good question, I know where he wouldn't be sent to, mind you, even this trainer would struggle wth superlatives for this one's breeding- A O'Brien He would go to a trainer going the right way- Tom Dascombe. Young up and coming trainer and this horse would put him on the map. Purely pocket talk mind, he's provided me with two very profitable winners at Ascot so that's why! BTW Doesn't Brown Panther look a horse going the right way... I would be tempted to follow up and suggest his stable jock Richard Kingscote, 2 winners at Royal Ascot... A win strikerate far in excess of messrs Hughes and co
If it was a colt I would send it to SMS and if it was a filly it would have to go to Cecil. Jockey, I would say that Paul Hanagan would be high on the list, but I also really rate Eddie Ahern too.
Yes Brown Panther looked a class apart today, Micheal Owen will be over the moon with that. I'd imagine they will target a group race next, maybe the Great Voltiger. Then they should get an idea of how much ability he realy has. I do like Tom Dascombe, he is definately a trainer to keep an eye on, he's definately on the up. but the young trainer I rate the most is Al Zarooni, I think he will be regarded as one of the greats by the end of his career
I would like to send it to a flat/NH trainer - like David Pipe see it trying over hurdles once or twice see how it goes, it will obviosuly have the pace and I reckon could be a champion hurdler- contraversial I know but just to see
I think I would be happy with Nass's suggestion. Colt to SMS; filly to SHC. But first I would rear it to 2 years before sending it for training and secondly I would see if anyone would buy half a share (for the right price) who would pay for all the training costs and entry fees. The half share would be to secure stallion fees or to breed from and if anything went wrong at least I would be minted and could develop our own stud further. I'll be dreaming now.
How about John Oxx as the trainer, he doesn't get many top horses but when he does he always handles them perfectly, Sea The Stars being one and Sindaar being another
That's a point Chippy, I should have a trainer in France. Can't go far wrong with the combination you suggest.
I'm sorry but i've put more thought into this, when you look at the expensive talents Stoute and Cecil have had over the years and you compare that to John Oxx. Oxx is clearly the better trainer. STS consistancy in 08 has to go down as one of the greatest training performances ever, to keep that horse on the go and producing the goods for so many races was remarkable. Perhaps we should take a look at Workforce in the King George or Shergar in the Leger, to realise how difficult getting the very best horses to fire each and every time they race is. Oxx doesn't get many G1 horses but when he does, he gets the best out of them, he has had 2 Derby Winners, and both of those horses have continued to produce the goods in there subsequent races. Both Sea The Stars and Sindaar following up in the Arc. Henry Cecil is a fantastic trainer also, but I would never back any of his horses in the Derby, his horses tend to improve with age, which suggests his Derby candidates are not at there peak come the Derby. Let's be honest 2 Derby wins is poor going for a man who has been at the top for so long. HC is a great trainer of fillies, no question of that so yes I'd trust him with the horse if it was a fillie, but if given tge choice I'd go with Oxx all day long, he us a better trainer than both Cecil and Stoute. I'm also amazed no one has mentioned AOB, his record is also better that Stoute and Cecil's when you consider how long he's been training, he was one G1 away from a world record of G1 wins in a season. He may be young and he may talk alot of hot air about his favourite horses but the guys pure quality, don't forget horses such as Galileo, High Chaparel, Rock Of Gibralter, Giants Causway, Dylan Thomas and ofcourse the best of them all Yeats. Yeats was an amazing training performance, to get that horse at the top of his game for 4 consecutive Ascot Gold Cups, winning the final one at 8 years old, check the record of 8 year olds in that race, so you realise just how difficult it is
I have long admired Aidan O'Brien brilliant at times but equally poor others. '' Listen Rishi hes the best we've had, Listen its like hes landed from another planet '' So You Think gets beat... '' Listen Rishi I just didn't have him fully tuned up '' G1 Royal Ascot. Oh dear, I couldn't believe what was coming out of his mouth. But lets not forget Aidan probably as the most pressurised job in the business and he delivers alot of the time. I think I'd still give this colt to Michael Stoute. Still for Me the best trainer in the business... I do however agree that John Oxx's handling of Sea The Stars must surely go down as one of the greatest ever. Remarkable how he kept the horse happy after every G1 win....
Oxx better than Stoute/Cecil!! I have heard everything now, he trains for the Aga Khan yet in his 31 years of training he has only won 20 Group 1s in Ireland and 11 in the UK (plus 2 Arcs) which in comparison to Stoute looks average at best. Stoute for instance has won 7 Nassau Stakes, 7 Lockinge Stakes and 9 Yorkshire Oaks!! He has also won 18 Irish Group 1s (not bad for a trainer who seldom sends a horse to Ireland) plus the Dubai World Cup and 5 races at the Breeders Cup. I think the fact that Stoute has so many different big owners says it all about his training quality, he trains for the following off the top of my head - Ballymacoll Stud Cheveley Park HRH Abdulla Coolmore Sheik Hamdan Rothschild (sp) Highclere Racing You don't get owners like those without being a fantastic trainer. AOB is doing fantastically well too, but he does have the most ammunition and he is now struggling to win Classics in the UK (Henry was the last wasn't he?).
Cecil and Stoute's careers have almost run in parallel. Cecil started in '69 and Stoute in '72. Considering Cecil had the period 2001 to 2006 when it seemed he couldn't train Ivy up a wall I'm still amazed Cecil has trained more classic winners than Stoute. You could say that it was easier for Cecil as he took over a going concern in the shape of his stepfather's stable but Boyd Rochfort was on the wane then even if he did pass on the 5yo Wolver Hollow. As it was Cecil didn't win a classic until 1975 and it wasn't until '77/78 that he got that consistency in his runners that became a hallmark of his career especially in the latter 70s, 80s and 90s. Colt or filly I'd send him to Cecil because I think he'd be more fun. That is unless I fancied a few games of cricket on the lawn after evening stables at Stoutes.
Send it to John Oxx- he doesn't makr any mistakes when he gets a good horse; and let Peslier ride it- he's doesn't make too many either.
Good question..... Its first a question on what you want from a horse as different trainers deliver different results... for example hannon & sms are total different entities when it comes to 2yr olds.... Im not exactly saying Hannon and similar trainers rush his horses into racing before they properly develop or develop more into their frame, but sms waits till their ready and I know that in the last few years they only start training their horses come april time. Given the outstanding pedigree.. you dont want a quick 2yr old to mop up the early season races and perhaps a classic trial... You want it winning the classic and the best 3yr old races... eclipse, arc, derby etc...Therefore I'd put it with SMS regardless of whether it was a colt or a filly. Agree with dascombe shout becoming a very creditable trainer who with the backing of owen and betfair man should progress and progress. I've heard that Brown Panther will head to the German Derby.
I am not saying that Oxx has achieved more than Stoute or Cecil, he hasn't, but that is largely down to the fact that his yard is tiny in comparison. He doesn't train anywere near as many horses, but when he gets a very good one he makes no mistakes, his strike rate in races such as the Derby and Arc is phenomonal! I'm pretty sure Oxx has only had 2 runners in the Derby in the last 10 years and both have won, were as how many flops has Henry Cecil had, he seems to have the Ante post favourite most years, yet they never do the buisness, Twice Over and World Dominations Derby hopes ended in the Dante, whilst Bullet Train finished last! How many Arc runners has SMS had, yet he has won just once, yet Oxx has had just 2 runners and both have won. Henry Cecil has never even won an Arc in how many years? Oxx may not get the same ammunition as them but when he gets a half decent one he takes full advantage. So j if your talking about a one off horse he has to be the one. The fact he has a small yard aswell would clearly would allow him to spend more time with the horse, and put more effort into training it, were as Stoute and Cecil have so many horses, that they couldn't possibly focus all there attentions into getting the best out of one horse
