This is addressed to those posters who have written during the course of the season that they wouldn't have wanted Charlton to get promoted "yet" as "we aren't ready" (or similar phrases): Crystal Palace manager Ian Holloway says winning a place in the Premier League would have a profound impact on the club's future Whichever side wins promotion to the Premier League can expect to receive a sum in the region of £120m, with financial services company Deloitte describing the play-off final as "the biggest financial prize in world football". The new Premier League TV deal will see top-flight sides receive £55m and even if the play-off final winners are relegated after just one season, they will be given around £60m in parachute payments over the course of four seasons. The problem with hanging around in the Championship until we are "ready" is that we are leaking money fast and will inevitably have to sell Solly, Wiggins, Morrison, and Hamer, as well as Harriott and any other bright youngster who emerges, while at the same time watching the fitness of Jackson, Hughes, Cort and Kermorgant gradually (or rapidly) decline. It is not a question of glory-hunting. It is a question of survival as a club. A few more injuries and poor refereeing decisions and we could have gone down this past season. Had we done so, who knows how long we would have keep CP and our best players and youngsters. Whereas if we go up and straight down again, we would have 60 million to play with. That should keep us afloat for a bit. In the old days, being content to be little old Charlton fulfilling our destiny as a mid-table second tier club with "genuine" local fans was an option. Now it is so risky that it will inevitably lead to disaster as soon as we hit an unlucky season, and every club has one from time to time.
As one of those posters you refer to, Eddie, I'm quite happy with where we finished. We don't have the foundations of a team which could survive at a higher level. As I've consistently said, our only hope is to build through our Academy, even if it means selling one or two to survive. Let's see how much good it has done Reading and QPR to have one season in the Premier League.
The financial gain from getting to the Premier League is too much, it would be foolish to suggest that the club would not benefit from the promotion regardless if we stay up or not.
I'm happy where we finished this season as well. The consequences of relegation didn't just affect the first team squad - there were many, many redundancies among staff at The Valley, the women's team was cut loose and we were relegated to a Mickey Mouse reserve league by default. I'm quite relaxed to be one of the ones who said this side wasn't ready to go up.
Trouble is we need to spend a bit more money to get promoted... Cardiff tried a failed for a couple of years and then finally got promoted with debts of £80m - Based on the above comments yes they'll re-gain their money but if we did the same and if it didnt pay off what would happen to Charlton? Am sorry but if playing it safe every year and slowly making our way to the Premiership is the way to do it then I'd prefer to do it that way than end up like Portsmouth who have had to suffer endless court battles to survive the last couple of years after they aimed too high too quickly
I am not sure that we are that far away.... the defence is sorted with Hamer, Solly, Morro, Dervite/Cort, Wiggins with Button, Wilson, Dervite/Cort/Feely and Evina as cover....right wing we are short with just a converted central midfield (Pritch) and Greeny so one more here.... centre midfield, Jacko, Hughesy, Stephens (probably going) and Dutch (probably going) so we need TWO more here.....left mid is Messi and Jacko as cover so a bit light...... attack we have Kermit plus youngsters Smith and Piggot so we need a replacement for Danny Haynes Need Right winger - ??? (starter) Center midfield - Gower (starter) Center midfield - ??? (squad) Left winger - ??? (squad) Attacker - Obika on loan? (starter) We could generate a bit of income from the sales of Stephens, Dutch and Cook but I doubt that we would get more than £1m for the three but perhaps that could be used to buy a good right winger? Anyway with a slightly smaller squad...thus generating the savings on players wages that the owners want for FFP (Financial Fair Play)... we could be more focused and as long as we don't get any major injuries we could have a real go at promotion. If you get to the Prem League you do not act silly and buy a Prem Team... you stick with the players and perhaps build with players who could also hack it in the Championship... yes you will get relegated BUT you should make a £20-£25m profit on the season and get £60m of paracute payments... you continue to build the next season and hope to go straight back up....WBA were a yo-yo club but they built every year...kept faith in their managers....and are now an established PL Club. This summer will test the Good Doctor's abilities to get the right players in but if he pulls another Kermit out of the bag we could have a very good 2013-14 ........ keep the faith...drink a lot of tea
I agree with Eddie,it is imperative that we get to the Premiership as it is not sustainable losing 7 to 8 million a season in the Championship.Powell did wonders to get us to ninth in the table but we are a long way short of being a side that will be pushing for automatic promotion next season.We need to strengthen in a number of areas with good quality.This costs and we do not have any money.With The new regulations we will have to be cute in the transfer market,with frees.We have reduced the wage bill with Fuller,Haynes and probably BWP going.The positions i feel we are short of Two up top,one in central midfield and one wide right in midfield.
Pretty certain I thought we'd be embarrassed by the play offs, but you're right, the money from promotion would have been a huge help. Two thoughts though. We spent a fairly long period in the Prem, and the money was good even then. When we came down, we had nothing to show for it, as instead of banking a bit for a rainy day, we pi**ed the lot away, and then som, on overpriced overrated and overpaid mediocrities, so our solid achievements in the prem were simply survival with debt accruing. Secondly, throwing money at the problema is no guarantee of success, just ask the QPR fans we'll be meeting next year. We need to buy cheap or free and wage structure within our means. Dick Plumb is right that a long stay where we are with the debts we are running up is a short cut to disaster, but we need something like a small miracle on the transfer front (other clubs around us may have the same dream of constructing a promotion side for free) and unless we get a big injection of cash, that's what we have to hope for.
This reminds me of the debate which used to take place on the fans' forum "Your Views" on the OS. Contributors like the legendary Nick Gray were forever berating those "Little Ole Charlton" fans who seemed happy to put up with mid-table mediocrity. It's actually a completely bogus argument, since we all want to see Charlton win every game. I wonder how many at the club would be happy to see Charlton at the foot of the table if we went up? Chris Powell may well end up going the way of Nigel Adkins or Brian McDermott, whose teams weren't even at the bottom of the table. So you end up with a large chunk of money being used to change managers, and then of course the new manager wants to bring in his own staff and players, no doubt on expensive contracts. I think the new FFP rules will actually mean a return to sanity for football in the long run, something which Germany realised some time ago.
Surely if we did go up now, we would not expect to stay up in the PL and thus would not be so wasteful with money as we were in 2006. By then we had become accustomed to being a PL club, whereas now we are not run on those lines. I see eddie's point.
This is the bottom line and I am sure the owners of the club, and any potential future owners, would agree with you. You are probably right, but we don't have to survive. If we came straight down we would have loads of dosh to mount better attempts. If the management is good enough, eventually we would go up, stay up, and survive as a club. If we stay where we are, bleeding 8 million a year or whatever the figure is, the club is facing extinction sooner or later. Where is it written that we could not continue to do that as well? The only difference is that as a Premiership club we would find it easier to attract and retain good youngsters and would be in a stronger position to apply for top tier academy status. Yes, Reading are a comparable and well-managed club, and what we should be aiming at. I forecast that their parachute money will enable them to get promoted again before it expires, sparking off an entitlement to another four years parachute money. QPR are a crazy set-up. We have nothing in common with them. We are all happy with where we finished. Well beyond our expectations. I am not for one minute suggesting that we should have got promoted. But we were only four points short of the play-offs (which are themselves a lottery) so no-one could say that it was impossible given a bit more luck and fewer injuries. (Incidentally, even the money from the play-offs would have come in handy). My argument is with those who wouldn't want us to go up even if we had to fluke it. I am not suggesting we spend more money we don't have in a gamble to get promoted. My argument is with those who wouldn't want to get promoted on our present outlay. Exactly my argument. WBA are a well-run club as are Swansea and Fulham. They (and Reading) should be our models, as we were once theirs. Right, but there is no reason why we have to act stupid again. In fact, having done it once might strengthen our resolve not to do so again. And you say "the money was good even then". It was only a fraction of what being in the Premiership now brings. For example, parachute payments now total 60 million. I think they were about 5 million then? QPR are a crazy club. We would never follow their example. But if we carry on as we are doing, sooner or later we will hit a streak of bad luck and get relegated. It could mean the end of the club. Never associate my views with those of the odious Nick Gray. Mid-table mediocrity was a viable option once. Clubs could stabilise like that. Now almost every club outside the top six is faced with a battle for survival, if not for that season certainly for the decade. Mainly because the players and agents get too much and TV money has distorted then economy. If more of that money went to the lower tiers the problems would largely go away. Every genuine fan with half a brain would accept that knowing that the money earned in the Premiership and the parachute money could ensure the survival of the club and provide the basis for future, and hopefully more enduring, promotions. Young kids will "support" a team until they lose a few matches then switch to another team in disgust. When they mature they stick with "their" team win or lose. Any fans who would rather the club be stuck in the Championship with its survival increasingly at risk, solely so they can see the team win a few more matches in the short term, have the brain of eight-year-olds. I wouldn't want them as my business partners. If fairly applied the rules could be the saving of football. But the authorities are so incompetent and corrupt, and so craven in the face of bullies like Sky, that I am not over confident. And when did this country ever do anything half as well as Germany since 1945? (Apart from one day in 1966, of course). But even if the new rules do all that is hoped, it won't happen overnight and could come too late to save our club and many others.
Playing devil's advocate here. Derby's most recent season in the Premier League (the one in which they smashed records), did a lot of damage to the club. They came down much weaker than they had been, with a losing mentality, and they lost quite a few fans in the process (partly because of how they went up - I know a few people who stopped renewing when they got promoted because of Davies' football). They haven't been back in the playoffs since. Wolves got two years in the Premier League, spent the money on infrastructure improvements (the ground), hasn't turned out well. Blackpool's owner has done very well indeed out of their moment in the sun, and paid himself more than Man Utd paid Wayne Rooney in that season. They came back down strong enough, but they've fallen to midtable and had two managers in the last season walk out and move to other clubs. Appleton's move to Blackburn was very interesting considering all the talk around Blackburn. They have since replaced Appleton with a man who was sacked from his last 3 jobs, the two most recent of which were in League 1. Not quite something we'd like to emulate. I think the likes of Bournemouth and Donny will be targeting finishing ahead of them. I've heard a few rumours about financial trouble at Burnley. I'm not sure how, they haven't seemed overly ambitious with Premier League money, but that's what some have said. Not sure if the above count as similar clubs. They probably don't if they don't fit with your view of the world. Swansea ran up considerable debts in the process of achieving promotion, as did Fulham. Swansea were lucky to get it quite quickly. Nottingham Forest, Leicester, and Cardiff to name a few have had to wait a bit longer. Overall, I think the money available makes promotion more attractive than staying in the same division, but it's not at all as straightforward as you make it. I don't think your argument is helped by suggesting that those who disagree with you have less than "half a brain" or is somehow not genuine. Ian Holloway is not someone whose opinions I care to read/hear. The bloke didn't realise until March or April that Watford had exploited a loophole in the rules on international loans.
Just seen the result. To be honest, I think Palace will be more Blackpool than WBA, and they probably won't get so many penalties in the PL, but I hate to see beneficiaries of administration gain a higher league standing and financial rewards shortly after burning their creditors. That goes for all clubs, be they Southampton, Leicester, Portsmouth or whoever.
I have to say I thought the tone of disagreement was a bit disagreeable. The fact is whether the supporters thought we were too weak to go up or not will have had zero influence on our faliure to achieve the play offs, as with much else the supporters like or dislike. It's also a bit meaningless as we did'nt get to the play offs, but i bet that whether or not people thought our presence in the Prem would have been embarrassing, everyone would have wanted us to win. Anyway, Palace have gone up so that's done and dusted. Any suggestions guaranteeing a place for us the season after would probably be appreciated by the fans, the board, and of course CP!!
As a result of their thoroughly deserved promotion Palace now have enough money to make Charlton, and the players concerned, offers they couldn't refuse for Solly, Morrison, Wiggins, Kermorgant and Harriott and still have plenty to spare. Just hypothetical of course, but I wonder how many of those genuine fans with fully developed brains who would rather see Charlton mid-table in the Championship rather than at the bottom of the table in the Premiership would be doing cartwheels of joy if that happened? Especially as any money we receive wouldn't stick around long if we have debts of 8 million a year to meet. Bottom line: ask CP and the owners of the club where they would rather be, and for all the fans' forums and trusts, etc, they are the only ones whose views really matter.
Sun yat-sen has numerous quotes about not being prepared for battle but it would be pompous to repeat them here. However they are poignant and prophetic. It can't be ignored historically what happened to this club and the influence of plastic support and a poor plan b we had in the premier league. It also has to be mentioned that if you have kids and trying to get them interested in a premier league team that keeps losing, and then see them drop like a stone afterwards, is hard to get them going back again, they (not surprisingly) want to see other things and see winners. Fan base is so important as is winning, this is a sport that is not for fun but for results. Our current squad would be worse than QPR were and would you want to be them? We are not ready yet, simple as that. Palace will find that out and get relegated like they always do. It's about being ready, we don't have the players or the money-yet.
THe fact is we didn't go up because we weren't good enough, that's why we're in The Championship next season, not because some fans were apprehensive about how we'd fare if we went up. I was one of those but it didn't stop me cheering the lads on for every home game, as I did when we were in a nosedive. It's clear the owners, whoever they are, have tightened the purse strings, so I can't imagine huge spending spree if we do go up next season, as I hope we do. And do you think those owners will stand by CP if we have a bad first half to the season? It wasn't the fans who got Nigel Adkins and Brian McDermott sacked. If our owners really valued CP they would have given him a new contract by now.
I'm sure it will be waiting on his desk for him the minute he gets back from holiday, FHB. Just an administrative oversight that it wasn't tied up before he flew off. Ahem...
My only concern re the contract was that he was due to be offered and sign one last summer. Since then there has been nothing but a few murmurings. I'm sure it will be agreed though- he loves the club and its plain to see his worth.
