I'm hearing that this is a gentleman's agreement. Apparantly Huw Jenkins said that LFC are free to bid for his players but only if other teams bid as well (attempt to create a bidding war?). I was wondering what the general opinion was on Allen? I didn't really see much of him last season and was wondering what he could bring?
I'm a fan of him he basically keeps things moving so not a spectacular player but he will find his man with a pass almost every time. His pass completion is up there with Xavi. Leon Britton Swansea City 93.3% 1127 Passes Xavi Barcelona 93.0% 1830 Passes Sergio Busquets Barcelona 91.3 % 1086 Passes Joe Allen Swansea City 90.3 1075
The stats look very good but with all due respect, Xavi plays quite high up the pitch so his passes are more incisive, has less time to think and under more pressure. (I understand Britton players deep, unsure about Allen). I think it's probably better to compare Britton and Allen to someone like Sergio who plays in a similar role. Still very respectable!
I wouldn't go down the stat road Luv. Last season stats were being used by LFC supporters to tell us how good Downing is
He's 29 so no on that alone. Allen played further forward than Britton and was always looking for the more incisive pass.
Well then why the hell don't we ask Everton to put a bid in for the whole Swansea side, then we could offer £1 more! Would that make you lot happy? Joe Allen is not good enough to play for Liverpool we have better options already on our books. All of these statistics are meaningless. Anybody can get 98% pass completion if they keep shuffling the ball about. But it doesn't mean that they can make a tackle or generate an incisive pass or (heaven forbid) put the ball in the back of the net!! That other thread on Borini is exactly the same. FFS he's a 20 year old with some potential nothing more and nothing less.
Another one of his sarcy, condescending posts ... It's a shame because Dave often talks sense but feels the need to talk down at people. Furthermore, he could be one for the future. Still need players who can come in and hit the ground running straightaway.
I'm not so sure we have better options on our books than Allen other than Lucas and Gerrard. His tackling and workrate is really good I think we would be getting a good young player that will get better with age. I agree with your Borini comment to some degree, there is a risk that he may not cut it and I would prefer a more recognised striker.
I can see where Dave is coming from (I think) as Allen is still a youngster and we need players who can slot into the first team straight away and make an impact. Definately a useful player to have in the squad but can he make an impact?
I'm a fan so would say yes, I'd love a midfield 3 of.... Gerrard Lucas Allen Lucas obviously the deeper and the other 2 pushing the play.
My only concern is that I don't want us to be using 'empty' midfielders again. What I mean by this is that we constantly used Shelvey and Henderson (who are great prospects) but they couldn't really add anything to our play apart from passing and the odd dribble (not consistently anyway). They have to be able to keep the ball and pass (check!) but can they do more, play a throughball, spread the play, dictate tempo? Which is why I'd be more inclined to start with Aqua (if he does stay). But as mentioned before, I have't seen Allen and what he is capable of but he sounds promising.
I'm not talking down to anybody. I AM getting very tired of people using statistics out of context and I am also highly sceptical of putting too much faith in one particular pattern of play. For me you have to look at the whole player not just his stats. What do your eyes tell you about how he plays and how he interacts? Statistics will only tell you what has been in a particular environment (universe in statistical talk) it cannot tell you what COULD be. I will readily admit that I was one of those who wanted Kenny to be given another season to bring his plan to fruition. However that was not to be. When Rodgers first arrived and talked about maintaining our philosophy of bright attacking football I was excited. As time and events have gone on it appears that his first priority is to impose his tactics on the club and bring in players (Sigurdsson - even though that didn't materialise and Borini) who's only qualification for playing for Liverpool is that they fit his system. All of this before he has been able to properly assess the player assets that he already has. This does not bode well. Sure, any side can be improved by the addition of quality players. However, the key word there is quality. None of us know what is really behind the stories regarding Carroll. However, my management consulting experience tells me that it is best to critically appraise your assets before you ditch them in favour of an unknown alternative. If Rodgers is playing games then it seems a strange one to be playing. If not then he appears to let his mouth run off without considering the consequences. Both alternatives again do not bode well. My gut is starting to tell me that Rodgers may be so wedded to his tactics that he is in danger of becoming one dimensional and therefore easy to overcome. If the tactics were so good at Swansea why did they not finish above us? Why did they score less goals (and that's without counting our 33 woodwork strikes and 5 missed penalties). Why did they concede more goals than us? After the Peninsula War, Wellington said of Napoleon's tactics that his strategy "was like a fine leather harness. It looked well and answered well. It glistened in the sun. But when it broke it was broken. Mine however was made of rope and when it broke I tied another knot and carried on". Sure let's take on the best of what Rodgers has to offer. Let's not be so profligate with the ball - especially in front of goal. But don't throw the baby out with the bath water! Now if this post comes across as sarcy or condescending then I apologise because it was not intended as such. It is however what I both think and feel and if that upsets then so be it.
Allen is great at finding a player we know that, other qualities would be dictating tempo, incisive passing, spreading play, and workrate. Just what we need. My opinion of course others (Dave) may disagree but I would love us to sign him. I don't think Dave was being grumpy but more showing frustration at the constant speculation.
I think you are right and Rodgers is very dug in with his methods and this will either something that pushes us on to great things or as you say he may be found out and it could go wrong. The only comfort I have is that the system works for Spain and Barca and finding a way to stop these two has not been found yet. With the Swansea comparison I again hope that with better players the method will work better and we will therefore improve. Lots of hopes and wishing from me but I like the system so am really looking forward to seeing us play this way. I understand why some a re a little more cautious though.
Dave - completely agree with everything you say but I do get a little annoyed at times with how you say it. But moving on, of course stats alone will never tell the whole picture and I definately agree about the risk of becoming one dimensional. BR is trying to instill a single system which runs through the whole club which has players who are technically gifted but also have the mental courage - it appears as if he wants a blank canvas to work from so he wants to get rid of all of the players who don't possess both attritube i.e. Downing, Adam, Carroll? At the end of last season, I thought we were in a period of evolution but Rodgers may turn it into a period of revolution.
