Confusion seems to be the order of the day regarding James Brent's HHP Development. The long awaited minutes of the meeting between the AFT and PCC's Tudor Evans was put online last week. What is obvious is that the building of a new Grandstand is important for the future of PAFC......James Brent has said that this was needed to not only modernise the stadium but also for the projected additional revenue it would bring......which is necessary to help pay the 'balloon payment' to it's creditors of up to £1.9m by the end of 2016. Tudor Evans rejected the idea that HHP would be the 'salvation' of the club, he re-iterated that Akkeron and PAFC are seperate and that a new grandstand will not solve the problem of the 'balloon payment'. Evans carried on by saying that even if the building work started tomorrow....it would never raise enough money to fund the balloon payment in time,so wouldn't be the salvation of the club. He stated that projected income of £1 million+ per year was 'pushing it a lot'. Tudor Evans mentioned the help the Council had given to help get the project off the ground......rates relief confirmed earlier this year.....plus rent relief over the two and a half years since James Brent has owned the club.....which has now reached the maximum amount that the council are allowed to give by law. The AFT representatives asked why the HHP development had stalled... Mr Evans gave a number of reasons.......lettings he said on the potential site are far slower than was planned.....the timetable has slipped far beyond its original timescale.....the plan for HHP was predicting a percentage of the funding being taken up by PCC and Plymouth Community Health......Mr Evans said that neither where aware of this prediction by Akkeron at the time of planning being issued and had no way of knowing. Mr Evans then dropped the bombshell that the plan for a hotel on HHP has fallen through and will not be happening. The obligation for an Ice Rink was for James Brent to provide 'continuous ice'....it does not need to be on HHP and could theoretically be located anywhere. Mr Evans made certain to point out that the Bretonside development was not to blame for the stalling of the HHP development. He also stated that the Bretonside development has not had planning permission yet... whereas HHP has had it for over a year,...even before Bretonside was public knowledge HHP lettings was not going as quickly as hoped. So summarising the AFT was informed that lettings and building timescales where far behind and contrary to initial plans,a hotel and studio school will not be part of any final design fo HHP. Following this the Herald issued a statement on behalf of the club's owner and chairman James Brent and council leader Tudor Evans, saying 'further statements' about the scheme are planned by the end of October. The Herald revealed the Mr Brent was 'hopeful' of making a 'positive announcement' for a new grandstand at Home Park 'before too long'. So that makes everything as clear as mud doesn't it.
To be honest nobody but nobody should be shocked by any of this. Been saying for a while now that in my opinion the build will not happen under Brent. The bloke must think that locals down here are stupid and don't understand anything. The bloke bought or rather didn't buy but acquired the club for absolutely nothing. He screwed the people owed money into the ground with what he gave back out of the money received for the ground and never had a pot to p*** in really. I genuinely believe he thought he would make money out of the club and that is the only reason he got involved. The bull he spouted about doing something for the locals was literally just that, bull. We might have actually been better off with Heaney although I think he is of the same ilk. Difference between the two is Heaney wouldn't have hidden behind being the great benefactor. Our illustrious President and the dogs of war as they like to see themselves backed the wrong horse. All we can hope for is that when the brown stuff hits the fan, and I think it surely will, there is an alternative that is genuine out there. Where I have no idea so it really is pray time.
Brent came out with all the right sort Bull s**te when he got the club for free and every one thought he was wonderful!! Good ideas but nothing to back them.. we all knew it was not going to happen.. It was always going to be a battle with the money with this idiot and we could be in bigger s**te soon... Like you sat Sensible we have to pray some one is willing to take it on... that ginger from Truro may re appear with his irish friends... We may also have the pleasure of Gullible the administrator again to rip us off and get another Bung... Tudor evans is also full of the brown stuff and Viv pengelly.. better forgot what she has had from us!! They are all in it together for what they can get... all Brent's friends !!! like the president.. with the brown tongue...
Now don't hold back Joe just let it all go..... The thing is that we have been fed lines from all and sundry including PCC for a while now. But, the wheels appear to be coming off so now is the time for the politicians to cover themselves. Not suggesting they did anything wrong particularly previously except to give Brent a chance. Hence the statements from Tudor Evans and the info suddenly flowing that wasn't public before. When politicians start covering their backs then you just know you have something to worry about. Note it is info regarding Brent from PCC and absolutely no info regarding what is going on from Mr Brent himself. He is so public with his info to the supporters isn't he, so forthcoming as promised at the outset. Not.
The thing I'd like to know is why the hotel plan fell through. This must have been a cornerstone of the whole project and Plymouth is in desperate need of a decent hotel. Jurys Inn is more of a motel than an hotel and the Continental is smart enough inside but in an uninspiring location shall we say. Is it Brent's finances? Unlikely if he's maintaining there are funds for other parts of the development as the hotel would have been the last thing he wanted to drop. Is it the council being pernickety about planning? Now that sounds much much more likely.
Just written about twenty lines replying to the above.....and it all disappeared.....although it was on autosave.... the website seemed to go down and wouldn't send it ? Although it has sent this......try again later when I have more time.
Why is it always somebody else to blame except Brent notdistant. When the mini stand was set to go there was no question mark over PCC's role in it but now bits are dropping off suddenly they "could" be to blame because they are causing problems. It makes far more sense for this to be about Brent's finances than it is to do with PCC. His Hotel arm suffered a kicking recently so it is quite feasible that he can no longer afford to put a hotel there. He isn't raking in money from letting out the rest of the building which may have been money to pay for his part being built. I repeat though, he could tell us if he wanted to and stop all of the speculation. In the interests of openess etc of course. But he won't. (I know, it's a right bummer when that happens Plym. It's happened to me a few times)
Elementary my dear Sensible. Because Brent has the powerful incentive of making money. I agree Brent's own finances may be an obstacle but that doesn't come out in the above report. To the contrary, it sounds more like Brent has been trying to bulldoze the Council into proceeding by overselling the benefits to the football club. Why would he do that if he didn't have the cash to proceed? The report doesn't say that Brent has withdrawn the hotel - why would he proceed with any part of the project without the hotel? It's his core business. If Brent had withdrawn the hotel, I suspect Evans would have been only too keen to blame him but it doesn't appear that he did. By implication then, the Council have scuppered it.
You may say that but I couldn't possibly comment.........more like the House of Cards than real life all of this. The one thing that makes me most suspicious about Brent is his lack of starting, let alone finishing, a project he has fought to get. There are a string of projects unstarted over the last two years or so with his name on it. I don't go along with the overselling bit to PCC either. We the great uneducated could see from a mile off that Argyle were never up for the sort of revenue that Brent was cackling on about from the start. Nobody I know, and literally I mean nobody, ever believed we would be in for several million a year. Most couldn't see close to one million and some couldn't see any increase at all. You cannot tell me that PCC ever believed those figures either. You can say what you like about politicians but just because these are jannner ones they aren't that thick. The bottom line to all of this in my opinion is that Brent wanted to achieve this build to benefit him at no cost to himself in the outlay. He never had the cash to do it himself and now because he can't get enough dumb people to give him some money he can't complete. He can always come on here and tell me I'm wrong of course and explain why. I might just not live to see that however.
Well, there's a majority here who have, shall we say, a less than a favourable opinion of business and businessmen. I on the other hand, from some experience, have a less than favourable opinion of politicians and more particularly civil servants, who the most obstructive, procrastinating, inflexible jobsworths known to man. So you naturally assume the problem lies with Brent and I naturally assume it's the jobsworths.
I know the opinion on business persons isn't flattering on here, or most sites if honest, but that isn't me and where I'm coming from. I understand that people in business are in it to earn a crust the same as anyone else who works. I also understand that their methods are what make them richer than me and their ethics are less than straight in a lot of cases. It's what makes them successful after all and sentiment hardly ever pays. There again the opinion of politicians isn't exactly great either again on most websites. People also think that they are in it for their own gain and don't have a public conscience which of course they try to have us believe they have. My experience in life is that very few people do anything for the greater good. There are exceptions of course but not huge numbers. However, in my case and a lot of cases, the lengths people would go to screw a pound and down somebody else is not that far. In other words a lot of people have some conscience. Having worked for local authority I can tell you honestly that the vast majority try their best to improve things and do a good job so I only recognise the expression jobsworth in a small number. You will always get some everywhere you go whther public or private sector. Having said all of the above I do not "naturally assume" it is Brent at fault. All of my dealings with him and things I've read etc bring me to that conclusion. The man has not completed anything so far anywhere. His record speaks volumes and is there in the public domain so I don't have to assume anything I can look at it coldly and see what seems to be logical.
notDistant.....Maybe people find more freedom by staying at the Premier Inn style of hotel these days.....two in Plymouth and one on the outskirts as well.....going to Bournemouth next week,....choice of three Premier Inns in the area.....okay basic,but clean and efficient....that's all I'm looking for.....and if you check them out regularly.....some good discounts away from weekends can be found. Okay now where was I this morning at 10am. Interesting how Tudor Evans told the AFT reps that the Hotel and the School parts of the development had fallen through and would not be happening....surely these where important parts of the whole plan and would be off-setting the cost of building the grandstand. Evans also said how PCC had allowed Brent rates and rent freebies....but they had now reached the limit allowed by law and that would be ending. Tudor Evans also said that he couldn't agree that the building of HHP was the answer for the future financial stability of the club and would not help to solve the problem of the 'balloon payment' due at the end of 2016 of £1.9 million. Bretonside he said has not got planning permission yet...not like HHP who have had it over a year and where having problems leasing out sites even before any talk of Bretonside. Brents response to this through the pages of the Herald never mentions any of these hiccups.....just saying that a further statement of the scheme are planned for the end of October. My feeling is that Evans and the PCC are turning the screws and pressurising Brent and Akkeron over the delays. We mustn't forget that Brent is also committed to an ice rink as well....and is obliged to provide 'continuous ice' so no developing of the old ice rink site until a replacement is built.....Evans said it doesn't have to be on the HHP development. Surely it's back to the drawing boards again...and a complete re-think.....maybe an enlarged grandstand design would help to appease the discontent in the ranks of the fanbase....but how would he pay for it without a hotel and school....what next shall we expect in this very long saga.
Plymouth definitely lacks a modern 4* business style hotel with that most radical of concepts, a car park, and a restaurant that sells more than pizza and pasta. And bear in mind 4* isn't what it was once, there's been nearly as much grade inflation in hotel classification as there has been in A level results! My employer is booking rooms in most of the hotels around here every week, if they are available. Jurys Inn, Boringdon Hall, Future Inn, we've use them all, we've had to. The Holiday Inn has rarely got rooms at short notice. Not only do we struggle to find the quantity or quality our visitors want, that "if they are available" clause tells you that there ought to be money to be made from an hotel in Plymouth. That's why it's odd it seems to have disappeared from the project.
Of course I forgot that these four star hotel rooms are being paid for by companies and not the people using them.....silly me.....although I have seen groups of company personnel using Premier Inns and taking the bar over in the evenings.
See that's the difference between ordinary folk and the pretentious richer variety. A reasonable hotel that is clean even if you have to go out to get posh nosh should be adequate for anyone. But it isn't for some who expect to be pampered. I stayed in an Ibis hotel in Wembley last week. Rooms perfectly ok for sleeping in which is what I wanted it for after all. Basically you sleep in a hotel room you don't live in it and as long as you can plug in your laptop what more do you need. They do all come with a loo and shower facility as standard. Who cares if the bathroom is tiled and not encrusted in marble. That isn't picking on business people either it is picking on rich people with too much money to spend in general. Tell your visitors to come down off their fecking high horse and join the real people and perhaps they would "expect" less.
Nearly commented on this yesterday but thought it might degenerate into yet another pro Brent v anti Brent debate (correct) which I have previously vowed not to get further involved in. To me (and everyone else), it is obvious that the original HHP scheme is not going to happen anywhere near the original plan, although i am fairly sure I knew about the school bit before TE saw fit to go public with not particularly well advised comments. So what happens next. I expect that the decrepit grandstand will be demolished and replaced by something smaller than previously advertised. The balloon payment has become a separate entity and even if work had started some time ago, the revenue would not have been realised in time for the payment anyway. So, lots of bills coming in and I have no idea how these will be paid, frankly as long as they are paid (or renegotiated) i couldn't care less. Whether JB can afford the bills or not is his concern, but if not lets hope he has a mystery buyer lined up, because I still don't see a queue forming to buy what is still a debt ridden club. Oh and Sensible there is also pleasure to be had from staying in good hotels that deliver a reasonable standard of service and good food. I have staying in many all over the world, some privately funded and some paid for through work- I have also stayed in some budget ones and the phrase 'you get what you pay for' was probably created for hotels. I formed the opinion that planning was the problem for the hotel rather than lack of finance but of course could be wrong. Whilst it may look like Plymouth has loads of hotels, Notdistant is correct, we do lack some quality ones- if you want to attract real money into the area then the facilities need to be of an appropriate standard. I think it odd that on the one hand you are looking for someone with deep pockets to finance the club and then on the other are ' picking on rich people with too much money to spend in general' are those not the only people than would consider investing in a football club?-a hard nosed business man certainly wouldn't.
Ummm We and other regular business customers pay a lot less than a private individual would at any of these places, so don't assume we are talking megabucks here. Thanks for the support Lyndhurst, nice to have at least one other non-socialist on the board! Interesting you say you got the impression that the problem was planning: that's exactly what I suspected. Brent made a comment about "not needing gold door handles" some while back and I thought then that as he wouldn't have specified gold door handles in the first place, he was probably alluding to cost escalation driven by planning requirements, something that isn't uncommon unfortunately...
