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Off Topic Heroes of yesteryear

Discussion in 'Tottenham Hotspur' started by SpursDisciple, Feb 16, 2016.

  1. SpursDisciple

    SpursDisciple Booking: Mod abuse - overturned on appeal
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    I thought there might be a need for a thread to talk generally about our heroes from the past - the anniversary of great moments, relive epic finals etc. Also to remember and mourn when we lose heroes, as has sadly happened recently.

    Hopefully more of the happy stuff though and to kick off

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    Tottenham Hotspur
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    We are delighted to announce that Jimmy Greaves & Steve Perryman will be inducted into our Hall of Fame on 20 April.

    Fabulous news - apart from the fact that both should have been inducted many years ago. Would love to attend the night.
     
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  2. deedub93

    deedub93 Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately Greavsie is not attending, I guess that he is still too ill, but it's great to see him being inducted. I won't be in the UK on the 20th April otherwise I think that I would go. I'm sure it will be a really good night.
     
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  3. "Thanks for that Brian"

    "Thanks for that Brian" Well-Known Member

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    I think this resolves some long standing and deep discontent on the part of the legends involved? I am enormously pleased to see this development and hope that it signals a strengthening of our collective identity and community. How can two such legends (our record holders for appearances and goals scored) not form part of our Hall of Fame? Well done to all who have broken through the problems and enormous congratulations to the two legends concerned. Thanks for what you gave to the club and its supporters. You will be remembered as long as there is a Tottenham Hotspur Football Club and rightly so.
     
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    Last edited: Feb 16, 2016
  4. remembercolinlee

    remembercolinlee Well-Known Member

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    I was listening to Steve Perryman on Danny Kelly's show My Sporting Life and he was scathing about the way the club was run by Sugar during his time as Assistant Manager in the early 1990s.
    Perryman was my hero as a kid and I was lucky enough to meet him at a book signing with my daughters about 8 or 9 yrs ago. He was a kind and charming man and spent time talking to everyone there.
    I wrote to all 92 league clubs 2 yrs ago asking if they could send a well done note on headed paper to my girls for trying so hard at school and doing well in their exams. I told them they were spurs fans and wanted to make a scrap book for them with responses. I explained that it didn't have to be from a player but a letter from an admin worker would be great.
    Exeter passed it on to Steve Perryman (where he is a director) who wrote a personal note to both my girls.
    Sheer class!
     
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  5. "Thanks for that Brian"

    "Thanks for that Brian" Well-Known Member

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    Stevie P was my hero too. I wrote to him after he scored 2 against AC Milan, congratulating him (I was only 8 at the time) and telling him my Dad had let me and my brother stay up late to listen to it on the radio as we couldn't get there. He sent me back a signed photograph that I still have somewhere.

    He went nearly 7 seasons without missing a single game which for an outfield player is just bonkers. He turned down Liverpool and United when we were shockingly awful and in the team that got relegated it often seemed like it was him and Big Pat and little else against the opposition. To see him lift the cups in his later years was a real joy and I cannot think what Ron Greenwood was doing when he preferred Mick 'the moustachioed ****er' Mills to Steve in the '82 World Cup. I never forgave Greenwood and I blame West Ham for that mistake and for ending Greavesie's career in disappointment.
     
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  6. NSIS

    NSIS Well-Known Member

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    I guess that for me it was being there as a kid on the day that Jimmy made his debut for us. I was behind the goal that he scored with an overhead kick. It was part of his debut hat trick against Blackpool.

    The other was as a little kid, being there the night we beat Sheffield Wednesday 2-1 to clinch the title. I got a belting from my old man as I wasn't allowed to go because of school! I sneaked out anyway, wasn't gonna miss that!
     
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  7. bigsmithy9

    bigsmithy9 Well-Known Member

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    anybody know what the problem was between Jim and Tottenham?

    I always think Messi will always be second to Jim.Spanish football has only about 4 teams worth anything.Division 1 and the Premier League was/is a different thing entirely.
    anyone ever hear of an alcoholic scoring 300+ goals? harsh to say that,but it's a fact!

    if this was America,they would have made a film of Jim's life.
    "A Funny Thing Happened On My Way To Spurs.....And After"!

    Get well Jim.Glad you beat the bottle.Many can't.....
     
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  8. "Thanks for that Brian"

    "Thanks for that Brian" Well-Known Member

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    From 2009:

    Dear Supporter

    Thank you for your note.

    Of course, Jimmy's omission from the Hall of Fame is a very sad case for all of us and one that we do desperately seek to rectify at least twice a season.

    Regrettably, for his own reasons, Jimmy chooses to have nothing to do with any of his former clubs and very little with the football world in general. We have contacted Jimmy and his representatives on many occasions, including inclusion in the Hall of Fame, to have a lounge named in his honour and for the 125 celebrations last season.

    We will continue to ask Jimmy wherever we can, whilst maintaining his wishes.

    Kind regards

    Jonathan

    Jonathan Waite
    Customer Services Manager
    Tottenham Hotspur Football & Athletic Co Ltd
    Bill Nicholson Way
    748 High Road
    London
    N17 0AP
     
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  9. O.Spurcat

    O.Spurcat Well-Known Member

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    Jimmy always felt that Spurs "used" legends of yesteryear as sources of revenue above genuinely honouring the great. Perryman supported him on this stance. The pair strongly believed all monies raised from these Legend evenings should go to ex-players who had fallen on hard times, rather than to boost the THFC bank account.

    I applaud their stance on something which is clearly important to two of our greats, but at the same time, I am pleased to see both sides have agreed to forget the past I differences and move on.
     
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  10. bigsmithy9

    bigsmithy9 Well-Known Member

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    Great for both sides.I do think a chunk of the players pay should be set aside for their retirement from the game.

    That reminds of Tommy Lawton who got several testimonial matches long after he had retired because he was in a financial mess. Perhaps he spent it and didn't save it...ala George Best and Bobby Smith.
    I hope with todays players and their todays pay,they all have an investment company looking after them!
     
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  11. O.Spurcat

    O.Spurcat Well-Known Member

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    I think all players pay into the PFA's pension fund these days.
     
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  12. "Thanks for that Brian"

    "Thanks for that Brian" Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for that OS. I had an idea it was something like that but didn't want to misrepresent their very strongly and probably, rightly, held views.
     
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  13. perrymanlegend

    perrymanlegend Well-Known Member

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    Like a few on here Stevie P was my hero.
    I was taken to a training session at Cheshunt by Pat Welton (remember him?) his wife worked with my mum at the time - think I was about 7 or 8
    I went on the coach with the youth team the player I sat next to was Keith Osgood- thought it couldn't get better it did ! When we arrived at the training ground all the famous players were there Chiv Ralph big Pat, but Steve Perryman was the only one who stopped to have a chat with a young fan, have never ever forgotten that moment. HOF well done Steve wish I could be there:emoticon-0148-yes:<ale><applause>
     
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  14. "Thanks for that Brian"

    "Thanks for that Brian" Well-Known Member

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    I was at a 'do' for a relative shortly after Christmas. I got chatting to the chap who lived next door. He'd worked for Fulham since the early 1960's. We talked Mullers a great deal as my wife went to school with his daughter Sam, Marsh and Best, John 'Spider' Lacy, John Margeritson (spelling?) and Mousa, Clint, etc.

    He had such praise for Vic Buckingham. My dad who is nearly 80 and started going to WHL in the immediate post-war years (he's still up there from time to time as his health permits) with his dad and brothers, had told me at his knee about Vic Buckingham and Arthur Rowe, Eddie Bailey, Tommy Harmer, etc. Out of nowhere an article on the BBC website has appeared on Vic Buckingham. I thought that I'd post it here:

    “**** BETIS” BOOMED THE RESPECTABLE LOOKING AND SOMEWHAT ECCENTRIC ENGLISHMAN to his bemused Barcelona players in the Camp Nou dressing room. He then proceeded to take them by further surprise as he aimed a perfectly placed karate kick at the tactics board, rendering it flat on its back. It was Victor Frederick Buckingham, Barcelona coach from December 1969 to the summer of 1971.

    Vic Buckingham (pictured, grey tracksuit, third from the right) was a name I first stumbled across almost 15 years ago when reading David Winner’s excellent homage to the Dutch psyche (through the admittedly sometimes vague conduit of football) in the book Brilliant Orange. It was a book that informed that Buckingham had undertaken two spells in charge of the mighty Ajax Amsterdam where, during his first spell, he’d unearthed a prodigiously talented 12-year-old by the name of Johan Cruyff. In his second spell at De Meer he went on to give the then 17-year-old Cruyff his first team debut. Legend has it that Buckingham’s influence on Cruyff’s life and career was so pronounced that the former Bradford Park Avenue manager became a godfather to one of his children.

    Buckingham’s playing career, at least at Football League level, was played out entirely with Tottenham Hotspur, initially as a centre half before switching to left half, straddling both sides of the Second World War in which he served with the RAF. A spell spent at Northfleet United in 1934-35 came prior to his breakthrough into the Spurs first team the following season, at what was then an unofficial feeder club for the White Hart Lane side. His time with Spurs erred on the side of steady if unspectacular, with all 204 of his league appearances being made while the North London club were lost to the clutches of Division Two. Top flight football remained out of Buckingham’s reach as a player.

    The most valuable part of Buckingham’s playing career was arguably being a close witness to the dawning of Spurs manager Arthur Rowe’s revolutionary push-and-run style of football. The two seasons following Buckingham’s retirement as a player in the summer of 1949 would see Rowe’s Spurs win back to back Division Two and Division One titles, catching the snoozing giants of English football cold with their short ball, possession-based fluid movement of play.

    Buckingham set off on a startling coaching odyssey that took him through a variety of outposts from the Middlesex County FA onwards to Norway for a short time at FC Moss, then to the lush surroundings of Oxford and Cambridge Universities with the Oxbridge amateur side Pegasus, leading them to FA Amateur Cup glory in front of a packed Wembley Stadium in 1951. He subsequently moved into professional management, firstly in the less subtle backdrop on offer at Bradford Park Avenue in Division Three North, only to be fast-tracked to the big time of top flight English and continental football with an eclectic array of clubs that took him to West Bromwich Albion, Ajax twice, Sheffield Wednesday, Fulham, Barcelona, Sevilla and Olympiacos.

    Remarkably, he walked away from West Brom in 1959 at a time when they were one of England’s leading clubs to take over at a then borderline amateur Ajax. If the concept of English coaches walking away from the domestic game even now in 2014 would be seen as a bit outside the box, then imagine how big a leap Buckingham took to join the Dutch club.

    Having cut his Football League teeth with that short spell at Bradford Park Avenue, it was at West Bromwich Albion that Buckingham had his most tangible domestic success, winning the FA Cup in his first full season 1953-54, beating a Tom Finney-inspired Preston North End 3-2 in an open and attacking cup final, a game where there is footage of Buckingham’s West Brom players taking on pure oxygen at half time. West Brom also finished as runners up to near neighbours Wolverhampton Wanderers that season in a title race that at one stage seemed to have West Brom’s name written on it as they seriously threatened to become the first club of the 20th century to complete the league and cup double.

    Aside from a shared Charity Shield a few months later, further trophies eluded Buckingham’s West Brom although they would remain in the hunt for honours during the remainder of the 1950s. Buckingham came within two minutes of taking West Brom back to Wembley in 1957, conceding a late equaliser in the semi-final before losing out in the replay against local rivals in the shape of Aston Villa. Two years later, Buckingham’s last act in charge at the Hawthorns was to relegate Villa on the final day of the 1958-59 season in front of a delighted full house. It was a remarkable way to bring an end to his time with the club, during which he’d also influenced the future coaching minds of the likes of Bobby Robson and Don Howe who were players under him.

    It was next that the quantum leap to Ajax was made as he headed off to Amsterdam. Footballing missionaries had left these shores before to preach the ways of the round ball but most of those that had gone before had been held back or passed over for jobs higher up the domestic food chain. Buckingham was different as he gave up a job at one of the late ’50s’ ‘Big Five’. These were the actions of a man way ahead of his time, preaching a short passing game that relied on possession and intelligent off-the-ball movement, flying in the face of the traditional bludgeoning English style of the game.

    In his two years at de Godenzonen, Buckingham won the Eredivise title and the Dutch Cup, later playing down his role in these successes when he claimed in an interview with David Winner in Brilliant Orange that the Ajax players he inherited already had the basics right and that all he had to do was teach them to own more possession of the ball. As much as Buckingham would downplay his role in the emergence of the monster that grew into the multiple champions of Europe, there are plenty willing to go to the opposite extreme and class him as the godfather of Total Football.

    Between his two spells at Ajax, Buckingham headed back to Yorkshire and into the open arms of Sheffield Wednesday, who had just lost their manager Harry Catterick to Everton. Wednesday had spent the 1950s yo-yoing between the top two divisions, with a remarkable three relegations and four promotions over the course of the decade, but had confounded expectations after the fourth of those promotions to bounce on to better things.

    Division One runners up in 1960-61 brought Everton knocking for the services of Catterick and it was to Buckingham that Wednesday turned. Three seasons yielded three consecutive 6th place finishes as well as a run to the quarter-finals of the Fairs Cup, losing out 4-3 to aBarcelona side that had contested their first European Cup final less than ten months earlier. Buckingham didn’t know it, but Barcelona had been impressed with his very modern style of football. His name had been noted for future reference.

    Buckingham’s time back in Yorkshire came to an end in April 1964 when he was informed that his contract wasn’t to be renewed, this coming on the eve of the revelation that two of Buckingham’s players and one of his former players had been implicated for their part in the British Betting Scandal. Peter Swan, David Layne and Tony Kay, who was by then playing his football with Everton, all served time in prison and saw their reputations and careers destroyed. Although Swan and Layne would make short-lived comebacks, Kay would never play again.

    Despite there being no suggestion that Buckingham was party to his players placing illegal bets on games they were involved in, the Sheffield Wednesday board decided he wasn’t the disciplinarian they felt their dressing room needed. Therefore, despite Wednesday never having finished outside the top six places under his leadership, Buckingham was out of a job.

    A devastated Buckingham headed back to Ajax in the summer of 1964 but had returned to England by the following January after finding a squad of senior players in advanced decline, forcing his hand to field large numbers of youth players led by Cruyff. Results were erratic and with a potential relegation battle looming both Ajax and Buckingham were in agreement that taking up the vacant managers position at Fulham was in the best interests of both parties. Buckingham was succeeded at Ajax by Rinus Michels and within four years the club was contesting its first European Cup final. Despite Buckingham’s second spell at Ajax not working out, his contribution to the club is deemed by many to be the chrysalis moment that eventually grew to become the all-conquering Total Football sides to flourish under Michels and Ștefan Kovács.

    Buckingham endured three years of struggle at Fulham between 1965 and 1968. Extreme budget constraints, an eccentric chairman in the shape of the entertainer Tommy Trinder, and a set of players who lacked the respect that the players of previous generations afforded him, were just some of the problems Buckingham had to contend with. Running battles about effort and temperament with players such as Rodney Marsh were damaging.

    In a bid to teach the uncompromising defender Bobby Keetch the art of balance Buckingham launched into a Fred Astaire tap-dance routine in front of the bemused player on the training pitch. “Learn that routine and you will perfect the art of balance” were Buckingham’s words of advice. Keetch’s expletive-powered reply led to his swift departure and a career in the lower divisions. Stories of Buckingham calling emergency team meetings on Sunday mornings after defeats the previous day were in circulation, where he would walk into the dressing room, unfold his newspaper, read it, fold it back up, and without uttering a single word to his under-performing players, promptly stroll back out of the dressing room, climb into his car and drive away, a scene that would have not looked out of place in a David Lynch movie.

    Buckingham was doomed to fail at Fulham, yet in many ways he over achieved, managing to defy Division One gravity as long as he did. Avoiding relegation for three years was a remarkable feat. The 1965-66 season in particular falls into the ‘Great Escape’ category. Buckingham was eventually sacked in January 1968, replaced by his protégé Bobby Robson, who couldn’t avert relegation at the end of 1968. Buckingham had tried to implement a more continental system at Fulham; he wanted the club to adopt the Ajax method of all levels of the club playing to the same system, ensuring the fluid transition of home-grown players from youth to first team levels, instead of the then more traditional way that junior and reserve teams were considered separate autonomies that did their own thing. It was a missed opportunity for the West London club.

    Buckingham again headed overseas after his time at Fulham came to an end, first to Greece where he coached Ethnikos Piraeus for a year before the unexpected call from Barcelona came in late 1969. Barcelona were just four points from the bottom of La Liga when Buckingham arrived as the Catalan giants’ third coach of the season. By the end of the 1969-70 seasonBarcelona had climbed to a fourth place finish, qualifying for Europe in the process.

    The following season saw Buckingham lead Barcelona to within a point of the domestic double. Finishing level on points with Valencia and with a superior goal difference, the title went to the Mestalla on the head-to-head rule instead. Barcelona took solace in beating the same opponents 4-3 after extra time in a classic cup final at the Bernabéu, the trophy handed over by an unhappy looking General Franco.

    Buckingham had revitalised Barcelona and was only forced to step down as coach due to the need for surgery on a persistent back problem after just a season and a half in charge at the Camp Nou. Buckingham, for the second time in his managerial career, was succeeded by Rinus Michels. The Englishman during his time at Barcelona also lobbied effectively for theSpanish football authorities to end their ban of signing foreign players. Buckingham laid the ground work for Cruyff’s eventual switch to the club in 1973.

    After months of recuperation following his surgery Buckingham was set to return to management in Greece in March 1972, until he got a call from Sevilla that he couldn’t refuse after enjoying his time in Spain so much with Barcelona. Sevilla had started the season well, but had hit an alarming tail spin and Buckingham was given the task of saving the club from relegation with only 11 games to go and a horrendous set of fixtures that included a late encounter with his previous club Barcelona and a final day trip away to Real Madrid.

    Despite a promising start it was a mission beyond even Buckingham’s powers of motivation. The conceding of a late winner against Barcelona in a 2-1 defeat was a devastating result, and with Real looking for the points to clinch the title on the final day, Sevilla slipped to a 4-1 defeat and relegation to the Segunda. Buckingham’s spell in Spain was over.

    One more high profile job fell Buckingham’s way in the summer of 1975 when Greek giants Olympiacos hired him, yet by January 1976 he was sacked amidst the riots that surrounded a 4-0 loss at home to PAOK. His final job was to oversee Rodos befall relegation from the top flight of Greek football in 1980.

    Buckingham died in late 1995, mourned by the fans of Ajax and Barcelona, but widely unheralded in his own country. A revolutionary man and coach who was way ahead of his time.

    By Steven Scraggy. Follow @Scraggy_74
     
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  15. pabird

    pabird Active Member

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    Pity that after such a delay in giving Jimmy and Steve there so rightful placement in the hall of fame no Chairman member of the management team or player in the present team saw fit to attend no matter how briefly
     
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  16. Wandering Yid

    Wandering Yid Well-Known Member

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    He's probably not quite the calibre of player that you had in mind for this thread, but I've just read somewhere that Didier Zokora now plays for a club called Pune City... tickled me anyway.
     
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  17. bigsmithy9

    bigsmithy9 Well-Known Member

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    I think Spurs had a reputation of being a mean club between the wars and a little after.Rarely spent on players.That's why Spurs spent a lot of time in Division 2 while Arsenal spent a lot on top players and were successful during the same period.
    Makes you wonder what Tottenham's directors did with the attendance money,doesn't it?

    Blanchflower was the turn of the tide!
     
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  18. Shark

    Shark Active Member

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    Here's a cool old photo

    An Ex-Spurs All Stars charity game from the mid 70's somewhere in Waltham Forest... There's Jimmy at the front. Terry Dyson and Eddie Clayton... Over the back somewhere is Trevor Brooking as well.

    Who's the guy on the left signing autographs? That's my Dad!

    Dad.jpg
     
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  19. bigsmithy9

    bigsmithy9 Well-Known Member

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    My.Their shorts are actually short! Compare them with the black basketball players "shorts" in the NBA.
     
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  20. Wandering Yid

    Wandering Yid Well-Known Member

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    On this day, 1981



    Arise Sir Ricky
     
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  21. Spurf

    Spurf Thread Mover
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    Signing autographs?
     
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