In favour... - Yes, if you'd offered 2nd and no trophies to any of us at the beginning of the season, we'd have burned our house down to secure it. But roughly by Feb/March, surely it is weird not to reassess the team's targets? And, once it is abundantly clear that the Big 4 are under-performing massively, whilst we have gelled amazingly well over the season, surely it becomes realistic to expect better? - We have seen a slew of disappointing results and performances this season that have pretty much been whitewashed by some truly impressive wins. United (A), Stoke (H), Leicester (A & H), Everton (H), Swansea (A), West Brom (H & A), Newcastle (H) West Ham (A), Arsenal (H), Chelsea (A), Soton (H)...that's 13 games there. Or in other words, a third of our total games have been let-downs. Is that acceptable, given that very few of them were actually against 'quality' opposition? - We limped out of both cups very early on and threw the EL in order to chase a title dream that had already begun to fade drastically after the damaging results to West Ham and Arsenal. In fact, with the greatest honesty we were never really within touching distance of Leicester when it mattered, and therefore were never really in the title chase outside of the fantasy fairytale world constructed by the tabloids. - We clearly have a talented squad, but Poch hasn't utilised it nearly as well as he could've. We still patently lack a Plan B and effective substitutes and it is probably the reason behind so many unnecessary draws. - There is every possibility now that we will fail to set a new points record. Even if we do, it will only be by a single point (73). Is it acceptable that AVB's side, inferior in every department save for Bale, managed 72points in a far harder league than the one we find ourselves in? - In a similar vein, 73 points is usually enough for 5th or 4th, no higher. Has our 'success' simply been the accidental by-product of everyone else's failure? Against... - This is a ridiculously young side with plenty of room to grow. The abject breakdown in discipline in recent weeks, leading to 2 damaging bans, highlights just how much these lads need to learn. And learn they will. You cannot expect better from a team whose oldest outfield player is all of 28. - We are winning more convincingly, and losing more narrowly. Even our most tepid performances of the season don't end in humiliation anymore, simply because there has been enough natural talent in the side to prevent any defeat being by more than a single goal. Compared to the doormat performances we were tortured by over the last 2-3 years, this has been a drastic improvement. - We have the best defensive record and one of the best offensive records. - Our hands have been tied, yet again, by traditional inertia in the market. Cover for Kane and Dier were urgently required yet not dealt with across 2 windows. You cannot 'underperform' unless you have the personnel to 'perform' with in the first place. - Even though the Big 4 were disappointing this season, teams like Leicester and West Ham improved drastically, with Southampton not far off a very impressive showing. The PL is so unforgiving that new predators will always arise in place of the old, and we have nonetheless navigated it superbly well.
Under-performed at the business end of the PL season. Not the collapse of 2012, just a couple of 45 min rather than 90 min performances.
1) The league is fundamentally different in that the new tv deal has meant that club such as west ham, stoke, palace, everton erc can afford bigger transfer fees and wages so players like Caybaye can join palace to get mega bucks rather than go and be a bench warmer at one of the sky 5 clubs. This has meant that most clubs are capable of pulling out big results and I can only see that becoming more so. So when people say it's a week league they are wrong ... the league is stronger but the top clubs don't have the domination of the top players to the same degree so are not able to dominate the league as in years gone by. 2) We left ourselves short of a striker and at the beginning of the season we paid the price for that. ..we also left ourselves short of a box to box midfielder and have paid the price for that in the past 2 or 3 matches. We coped well with our injuries throughout the season (Dembele, Mason, Njie, Son, Vertongen, Rose) but it is clear that we need cover for Alli, Dembele, Dier and 2 new strikers. 3) We need to learn the lessons of the season, on and off the pitch. We need our transfers completed by the first day of the season...any transfer in after then should be a sudden availability issue such as with VDV. We must learn the lessons about keeping our composure. Pochettino needs to think more about how his substitutions can positively change the match as this has been hit and miss this season. Sometimes he needs to change things earlier to prevent the game swinging away from us. The matches that spring to are the Arsenal ones, West Brom, Newcastle and today v Southampton. I sound like I am being mega critical but I am over all really pleased with our season cos all in all I think we have made great strides forwards. Next season will be the test...we need to again challenge for the title, get a top 4 position, while attempting to perform in the CL and trying to win a cup. To give this a good try, let alone succeed, we need the equivalent of 2 first teams. Oh...and Holly Willoughby? ???? My daughters just told me who she is!
This season we have - 1. Our highest prem league finish. 2. Our highest prem points total (if we win the last game, second highest if not). 3. Most goals we've ever scored in a prem season. 4. Fewest goals we've conceded in a prem season. 5. Those last two obviously equate to the best goal difference we've ever had in a prem season. 6. Our striker leading the scoring chart with a real opportunity to win the golden boot. 7. 5 1st team players established in the England Squad. I know football didn't start in 92 but this is a very young squad that if kept together can improve for future seasons having set a benchmark this time. It has been a strange season but the poor form of the traditional top sides and the enigma that is Leicester are irrelevant to our performance over the season and therefore irrelevant as context in how we assess that performance. That fact that we can point to obvious areas of improvement is okay. To suggest that we've under-performed though? No way dude!!! COYS!!!
There's many more against: > We've been cast as the pantomime villain in Leicester's fairy story and suffered accordingly. For example the ridiculous scheduling of three Monday night matches to play catch up when we're already points behind. Anyone with a brain would realise it would be more exciting (but not fit the script) if we played first. Basically Sky wouldn't have scheduled any of their favourites that way if they had to catch up. > We've experienced several disappointing results but I think hardly any bad performances. The West Ham away game was the only one where we really didn't play well. Given a couple of breaks we could have won just about every game we lost or drew. So many teams have got points by scoring just about their only shots on target and generally that's unlucky rather than a bad performance. > Many teams have played well against us but not against Leicester. Basically they haven't treated Leicester seriously and suffered accordingly. You can't tell me that Man City and Chelski put half the effort in against Leicester as they did against us. Yes I know we beat Man City but the point still remains that a lot of teams were surprised by Leicester. Leicester also scraped a lot of 1-0 wins and that isn't necessarily the sign of a great team, it's also the sign of good fortune. > There are loads more. Basically I can't believe we're even having this discussion. The definition of pessimist should be rewritten to accommodate Spurs supporters. I'd love to hear how you lot would have reacted to our relegation season!
The fact that Spurs were considered title contenders surely suggests that Spurs have not under-performed? After all, when was the last time Spurs were in with a shout, of being considered title contenders? I for one, think this has been a superb season despite the circumstances of what led Spurs to chasing the leaders. It has been a slight disappointment that Spurs have faltered a little, but other than Leicester, hasn't everyone else gone through a similar phase? I would rather experience the disappointment of failing to dislodge the PL leaders and win the PL, rather than experience mediocrity. The key now though, is to ensure Spurs are equipped to improve next season as no doubt others will, and ensure Spurs do not get left behind.
You have to ask yourself what you had hoped for from this season back last August. If the vast majority of us are honest, we'd have bitten a hand off if it had offered CL qualification! So, if we not only have that, but automatic qualification for the group stages......!! So, whilst it's a tad disappointing to have faded over the last few games, the season as a whole has provided far more than I expected.
Don't get me wrong Vim, I'm not having a go at the team at all. In fact, by the time I'd put this thread up yesterday, I'd calmed down sufficiently to revise my vote from 'Yes, under-performed' to 'I don't know'. But I absolutely won't change it again to 'we've smashed it', least of all because that would be telling myself to f*** off I think it is a discussion worth having, and to add to what Barney has said above; isn't it sensible to worry at least a little bit that the only reason we were able to launch a 'title bid' is because the big guns were so awful this season? (In any event, we weren't honestly ever in with a shout of winning it this side of the international break. Our last chance was destroyed by the results against West Ham and Arsenal. The last 7-8 games of the season we've simply been the best of the also-rans, and therefore conveniently placed to play the crucial role of villain for the media frenzy over Leicester.) Like I said in the OP, 70 points is nothing special - usually doesn't get you anywhere near top spot (even this crazy season, we're already 10 points adrift and that could well be more by close of business next week). So I truly am hesitant to say that we are where we are because we've punched above our weight this season. We haven't. To a large extent, we are where we are because everyone else has been so terrible. Of course, at the beginning of the season, 2nd and no trophy sounded outrageously good. But now that we have the gift of hindsight...is it? I haven't seen the big 4 this bad in my lifetime - I don't see how we can ignore that fact. Again, I'm not saying we haven't done really well, but I'm beginning to have my doubts whether we've actually reached the heights we've all been singing about this season. The past few results have shown that there is a long way to go yet...
I disagree with this NSIS. Usually, you'd be correct. Most seasons it is pretty easy to predict roughly how each team will perform. This year has been impossible. Once it became clear (appx. March time) that the big 4 were cack, your pre-season goals must be revised and upgraded accordingly, or we just become a slightly sexier version of Arsenal.
I think Pochettino has got this right. As far as I can tell he doesn't have any goals or objectives beyond maximising the points total. Every match is treated as an opportunity to get three points and whether or not we are successful - "we go again". Your post suggests that we should have changed our plan in some way once it became clear we had a chance to win the league. We did, didn't we? We started playing weaker teams in the EL and the FA cup. Or perhaps you mean that we should have played with different, riskier tactics? That would have given a higher chance of getting more points but I think in practice we would have ended with fewer. I also don't get this claim that the league is 'weaker' than a few years back. The reason that Chelsea etc are under performing is much more likely to be because the league is stronger and they can't cope. To claim that the youngest team in the league, assembled at the the sixth highest cost will have under-achieved in any way by coming second or third is laughable. If we can clinch second this will be the third best season EVER for Spurs!
To me, the relatively low points scores of the teams at the top of the table merely reflects the increased competitiveness of the PL. It may sound like an old cliche, but this really is a league where almost anybody is capable of beating any other team on the right day. There are very few 'pushover' games for anybody nowadays.
Not really PS. I'm only talking about goals rather than methods. The goals surely needed upgrading once it became clear just how lousy a season everyone else was having. Am I wrong in thinking that? The methodology to achieve these revised goals - which games to prioritise, how to rotate the team etc. is entirely down to the manager as he hopefully knows how best to accomplish them. The fact that we have the youngest team in the league takes on far less significance when you factor in the idea that had the big 4 been as all-conquering as they usually are, we wouldn't be anywhere near where we are now. If we were currently sitting in 2nd place on 78 points just out of reach of Leicester, I'd agree with you. But the reality is that we are now far closer to the chasing pack than the leaders and sit on a points tally that really isn't that impressive, even if the football we've used to earn it has admittedly been sublime at times. I guess I'm just a bit unnerved when I see so many posters writing that next year we'll easily challenge for the title, when the reality is that this season the only place we 'challenged' for the title was the back page of various newspapers. If you want an example of a proper title challenge, you'd need to look up City's turnaround of 4 years ago culminating in a 93rd minute winner from Aguero to seal it on GD. We didn't come close to that. If the throwing of the EL indeed represented a revision of our goals, namely 'to challenge for the title', then we failed in that goal, simply because from the moment we lost in Dortmund, we haven't come close to challenging for the title. I'm not alone in saying that the squad needs a lot of work over the summer in order for us to really be at that level. But I guess I am alone in thinking that we've somewhat underachieved Nothing wrong with discussing it though
Think it's been a great season, I'd say we've smashed it, so **** off CK . But in all seriousness it's been a really enjoyable season in my eyes, yes there have been disappointing results along the way but I think we have to expect that, the Premier League is the most competitive league in the world, with Villa aside (sorry Villa!) anyone can literally beat anyone on their day and so for us to have consistently picked up loads of points and guarantee ourselves a finish of no less than 3rd place, I really don't think there can be many complaints. For me we've definitely been the most entertaining side in the league, we've demolished a number of sides and done it in brilliant fashion for the most part, perhaps that's come back to bite us as being the attacking side that we are, we're going to leave ourselves open at times which can allow teams to hit us on the break, perhaps if we'd adopted Leicester's Chelsea approach of sitting back and hitting on a counter in these final run-in of games then we could've possibly finished with more points but with Spurs that just doesn't happen. Plus we were somewhat painted as the villains in this title race as we were the side for so long looking to break the fairytale for Leicester, I think the mentality of sides facing us were always a lot different to when they were facing Leicester, when sides face us they tend to adopt a more defensive approach to the game, whereas with Leicester, especially in the first half of the season, teams probably thought they were in with a good chance of three points and therefore left themselves open which Leicester exploited brilliantly. Chelsea have been the only top side to have massively underperformed while City have been below-par and could miss out on CL if Utd win both their remaining games but they did get to a CL semi final and also won the League Cup so it's not been all bad for them, especially as Kompany and Aguero have missed chunks of the season. Arsenal and Utd have remained consistent, in fact if Utd do finish fourth and win the FA Cup then I think most Utd fans would consider it a successful season. Leicester have just obviously massively overachieved to a crazy level and kudos to them, if we excluded their incredible season we'd be top, with Arsenal, Utd and City in CL places, which to me shows and furthers my point of Chelsea being the huge underachievers and us smashing it. Pool have been average in the league but could end up with a Europa League title and thus CL qualification so I think they've had a decent season too. Start of the season though we'd have all bitten hands off if offered guaranteed group stage qualification for the CL. We've done this all with the youngest squad in the Prem and only one striker and one natural DM (who only became that this season!), if we can add a bit of better competition for places then the sky's the limit for us in my eyes.
OVERPERFORMED because results and performances have been very good, yet the squad is young and a number of key players lacked experience and were unproven. To be challenging for the title into May is far better than anyone would have expected. It's unfortunate that the team above you have overperformed to an unprecedented extent. You got 72 in 2013 and came 5th. You might do worse than that and come 2nd this season. That's because the usually more dominant teams have underperformed. None of the usual suspects have been consistent in either performances or results. It highlights how consistently getting results is the key to success in the league. Arsenal have shown over the last decade how letting results slip in just half a dozen games or so makes the difference between winning the title and being 10-12 points off the pace. As CK pointed out, there were probably a dozen or so games were your performances dropped off this season - usually when your goalscoring prowess deserted you. That might be down to not having a real alternative to Kane. When you scored freely, the goals came in a handful of games. There were too many 0s and 1s in games - and when 1 was scored, the opposition didn't score 0 often enough. It's amazing how often the title winners have a spell of grinding out 1-0 wins, even those renowned for attacking football. It's experience that counts in those situations.
No point in changing your objectives if you are not going to change your plan! You will just achieve whatever you were going to anyway. I also don't think that failing to meet a goal should be considered to be underachieving. Its reasonable to set a goal of winning the league if you are the fifth best team. The other thing I'm surprised to see on here is the failure to notice that the most successful signings we have made recently and therefore the reasons for the success this year have not in general been the highest priced ones. So the call for us to spend big to reinforce the squad is misplaced in my view. I think we should buy at most four players and sell two. We need to give players like Bentaleb, Yedlin, Son and Clinton plenty of time
I've claimed on here a few times that we underperformed under Harry. I think this season is more evidence of that than underperforming now
This season has been a success. We haven't finished in the top 3 since Terry Venables was manager. However it's not wrong to hope for more and be disappointed with how it's gone and think of what could have been. For me next season is the real test. To do well in the champions league (reach knockout stages) and finish in the top 4 again will be one hell of a challenge as City, Chelsea and Utd will all have new managers and Liverpool seem to be improving significantly under Klopp. To dare is to do though. I just hope money is there for Poch to get in 3-4 players which could improve the team and squad.
I'm inclined to agree with this, albeit there's the elephant in the room again - the big guns were very much firing on all cylinders in 2010-11. This year they've all run out of gunpowder...
