1. Log in now to remove adverts - no adverts at all to registered members!

Have Sunderland Learned Lessons? RR

Discussion in 'Sunderland' started by C19RK73, Sep 30, 2014.

  1. C19RK73

    C19RK73 Red & White army!

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2012
    Messages:
    38,541
    Likes Received:
    15,169
    It was written and said on many occasions both running up to and in the aftermath of Sunderland's clash with Swansea City last weekend that perhaps the Black Cats could learn a thing or two from the Welsh side.

    While understanding the sentiment in terms of the long-term strategy chairman Huw Jenkins set out with a view to appointing managers in a certain mould who would encourage an attractive style of football, it just doesn't seem correct that Sunderland should be taking too many pointers from a side that's spent only three consecutive full campaigns in the Premier League in comparison with the Wearsiders' seven.

    Swansea brought in manager Roberto Martinez back in February 2007 which began the project in earnest, then proceeded to appoint a succession of coaches with exactly the same philosophy including Paulo Sousa, Brendan Rodgers and Michael Laudrup. Now, they've invested in former captain Garry Monk, who also seems to be cut from the same cloth.

    While it's commendable that Swansea have continued putting their faith in a passing game and never wavered from that belief, it must be remembered they did only make it up to the top-flight just three years ago via the play-offs to earn their first crack at the big-time since suffering relegation in 1983. Maybe I'm missing the point a little here, but surely a club the size and stature of Sunderland should firstly be well aware of what's required at the highest level by now and, what's more, shouldn't need to take their lead from an outfit such as Swansea City, with all due respect to them.

    It's always worth aspiring towards greatness in order to achieve the very best possible outcome, but if Sunderland wish to become the best they can be, then it strikes me as sensible to pick out a realistic target to aim for in the form of a team fighting it out in the upper echelons of the league standings every term. For me, the prime example is Everton Football Club, who're currently playing their 112th season in the English top division, which also equates to 60 years without a break since promotion was gained in 1954.

    More recently, they've achieved a top-eight finish in 10 of the last 12 Premier League campaigns whilst working within a tight budget much of the time. Seldom has chairman Bill Kenwright pulled out the cheque-book, as he did in the isolated cases of Marouane Fellaini and Romelu Lukaku, because it's seemingly been more about promoting youth where possible and seeking out bargain buys with great potential.

    Should Sunderland wish to instil an expansive passing game for the longer-term, then it appears obvious to make sure that each manager who walks through the doors at the Stadium of Light from now on holds those principles of how football should be played in the same way that Swansea have done for the last seven-and-a-half years. However, that's where the invaluable years of experience gained at the top-level by Sunderland should take over in making certain that the club succeeds on the field for the foreseeable future, as opposed to replicating any other particular traits from South Wales.

    There must be an end to the chopping and changing of managers every 18 months, as has been the average tenure for the last seven permanent men at the helm. Again, look at the stability enjoyed under David Moyes at Everton and the relative success that brought to Goodison Park. Sunderland's decision-makers must give Gus Poyet, who has undoubtedly earned the right to be afforded plenty of patience from both fans and club hierarchy alike, their absolute backing for the long stretch in order to allow him the fullest opportunity to put all of his ideas into practice - 18 months won't be nearly long enough.

    Everton have also proved that it doesn't take megabucks to compete for a top-half of the table position by simply employing a shrewd approach to recruitment instead, allied to a willingness to hand youngsters a chance when they warrant it. Glancing through the current Toffees first-team, the likes of Leon Osman, Tony Hibbert, Ross Barkley and Tyias Browning have all progressed through the ranks and into the senior side over the years, while Seamus Coleman joined from Irish league outfit Sligo Rovers as a raw 20-year-old and quickly developed into one of the best full-backs in the country.

    Furthermore, the north-west club have a history of producing top young professionals, none more prominent than Wayne Rooney, of course. They nurture that talent to such a stage whereby it's possible to sell them on for a huge fee and reinvest the cash into the club's coffers. Recently at Sunderland, only Jordan Henderson comes into a similar category when he left for Liverpool having started out as a kid with his hometown team.

    When the Toffees do spend money it's usually been in a prudent way on a mixture of youth and experience in the shape of Baines, Jagielka, Stones, Barry, McGeady, McCarthy, Mirallas and Naismith to name a few. They've all signed up for relatively small amounts, but improved the squad at Goodison substantially.

    So, following seven seasons of turbulence in the top-flight, surely Sunderland recognise that's the right way to go. With a real chance to introduce a proper plan under Poyet, all memories of missteps from the past must be utilised in order to create a better and more productive future on Wearside.

    I really can't see why Swansea or any other club of that limited size and growth potential should be the 'shining example' for the Black Cats to follow. Sunderland must instead heed the many warnings given throughout the precarious, yet unbroken run at the highest level and put those lessons learned into decisive action. And, if they want a truly inspirational example of how to deliver success under strict budgetary conditions, they need look no further than the blue half of Merseyside for guidance and the red-and-whites won't go far wrong.
     
    #1
  2. MrRAWhite

    MrRAWhite Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2011
    Messages:
    26,980
    Likes Received:
    14,263
    Good read mate...Everton are a club we should be using as an example. Apart from the behaviour of their fans of course which has been atrocious in recent years..
     
    #2
  3. Smug in Boots

    Smug in Boots Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2011
    Messages:
    67,092
    Likes Received:
    158,045
    Excellent post mate.

    It's ridiculous that, at a time when SAFC are attempting to totally 'rewrite the club' and install a solid foundation some people are calling for Poyet to be sacked.

    Monk has has lost 2, should've been 3, of his last 3 games yet is 'highly regarded' by some people despite being new to the job.

    Sunderland need a period of unwavering stability while Poyet can instil some sound principles.

    There's no reason why a club like ours, with twice the support of the likes of Swansea, Portsmouth, Hull etc, can't have some success.

    Two more transfer windows and I think we'll be flying tbh.
     
    #3
  4. Sunderpitt

    Sunderpitt Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2011
    Messages:
    10,976
    Likes Received:
    14,471
    As you say Everton seem to be a blueprint for us...so we do not chop and change managers quickly and if we do they must follow the same football tactics and style, other wise a huge player turnover is needed.

    IMHO we are still not making enough chances and with our strikers they need several opportunities before they score. So we need to blend better than we are now.

    I have just played golf with a fellow Sunderland supporter who had not been for a while but went last Saturday...he was I am afraid, not impressed...whereas for myself I saw some improvement in our play compared to games of late. It is likely the truth lies somewhere in between. IF we can keep out of relegation trouble and gradually improve the squad with a couple more transfer windows, we will be I believe have the chance to do an Everton.
     
    #4
  5. Brian Storm

    Brian Storm Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2012
    Messages:
    48,871
    Likes Received:
    16,296
    I don't get it, why would anybody be saying we should learn something from Swansea? Surely Short's emphasis on financial stability and Hiring a Coach and DoF who both stated the importance and priority in getting youth through to the first team shows we have the Everton Model in mind. The only similarities to Swansea I see is that we've hired a manager who likes to play proper football. Screw the Swansea model, they've had more managers than hot dinners, I'm happy with our plan of running the club at profit and making full use of our fantastic youth facilities.

    Just takes time that's all. But we are definitely moving in the right direction, we need to support Gus and Congerton long term and give them all the time they need imo. We've got good blueprint finally set up, stability is now the key.
     
    #5
  6. Nostalgic

    Nostalgic Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2012
    Messages:
    5,463
    Likes Received:
    1,678
    Well established in football history that supporters will follow a winning team, the quality of the football has always come second to results. Not sure about Everton being a blueprint unless we only use the chairman/owner as the stabiliser. He has appointed and then planned with his managers over the years and has not suffered from knee jerk reactions when times were bad. Swansea's efforts are directed to the manager fitting the style but only time will tell.
     
    #6

  7. The Relic

    The Relic Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2014
    Messages:
    2,210
    Likes Received:
    1,142
    I love "the stature of Sunderland". Who the hell are these dreamers kidding? We've won one league title in a century (and that 77 years ago) and two FA Cups in our entire history. We've been in European competition once, 40 years ago. "The stature of Sunderland" - oh boy! We've been back in the top division for seven years, sure but look at the facts :

    2007-8.................15th
    2008-9.................16th
    2009-10...............13th
    2010.11...............10th
    2011.12...............13th
    2012.13...............17th
    2013.14...............14th

    We are, in fact, a bottom-scraping club, pretty much like e.g. Coventry were a few years ago, and, for an aspiring, ambitious young player, not a place I would choose to go. I'm not suggesting for one moment that we should give up the ghost. But I do wish we would abandon our worn-out pretensions. One title and two cups in 100 years - "the stature of Sunderland", indeed. Ha, doesn't it make you want to laugh? The bottom line is I'll take lessons from Swansea City or anywhere else I can damn well get them.
     
    #7
  8. Rick O'Shea

    Rick O'Shea Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2013
    Messages:
    8,151
    Likes Received:
    859
    Swansea don't really on a manager as much as other models. The positives of having longevity is offset by this.
     
    #8
  9. DAPARKERSAFC

    DAPARKERSAFC Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2011
    Messages:
    4,381
    Likes Received:
    1,678
    We are a £10-15m quality goal getter away from being a solid and capable mid table side.

    If we'd got Bony and Swansea had got Altidore last season we'd have finished above them and would probably be sat on 11 points or more this season I reckon.
     
    #9
  10. Brian Storm

    Brian Storm Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2012
    Messages:
    48,871
    Likes Received:
    16,296
    We'll struggle to find one of them, look at last season's top goal scorers and see how many strikers scored more than 10 league goals, then see how much they cost. I'll tell you, out of 18 players who scored more than 10 league goals only 3 were strikers who are worth up to 15m. Lambert, Bony and Giroud.

    What I'm trying to say is is that strikers aren't signed to score goals alone anymore, football has evolved, they need to be able to do everything else too. They have to be able to play a heavy role in build up play, they need to be able to pass, have composure on the ball out of the box, provide movement off the ball to create space, they need to be creative too as goals come from everywhere these days.

    Another Darren bent is not what we need, we've already got a natural finisher in fletch and he's out of his depth. I'd settle for a striker who can play football. At the moment we don't have a single one.
     
    #10

Share This Page