First things first, I'm not saying the Harry/England is right or that it didn't affect us, it did obviously, but perhaps not as much as is being blamed. The initial blast of publicity maybe, but I don't see players put off for 11 games (over 2 months!) by it, an opinion shared by our own VdV. I've had a look at two other factors that I think had more to do with the dip...imo! Lennon - first half of the season, say no more! He then gets injured with a 6 weeker, round about 20th Dec. came back too early, was ineffective not wishing to push it, and got another niggle anyway. Its only recently we've seen bits of the AL we know, and results improve...blimey, what does that timeframe match? Also at this time we came up against a succession of 'bus parkers', is it any surprise that after struggling against this tactic (no width, and trying to tip toe through the middle) the first couple of times, other teams due to play us that we'd already ripped a new one thought, right, that'll do! Dominating possession in games is relatively new to us, so can we just accept a few errors as we seek to play this way.
What made it odd is that, when facing teams set up to try and nullify our attacks and catch us on the break, during that period we were playing with Parker and Sandro in midfield. When up against a team set out to stop you playing, playing two defensive midfielders is the worst tactic you can use, as that reduces the amount of creativity you have through the middle. In our case, it led to central midfield being congested as Bale and VDV both spent more time cutting in rather than keeping to the wings, so Modric had nobody to pass to and Adebayor was isolated. (Ghoddle10, take the hint...)
Agreed. A combination of Harry trying to demonstrate his tactical prowess, and being all to eager to settle for what he thought he had, I.e. third place. Couldn't have blown up much more spectacularly!
Norwich away was one of our best perfomances of the season, I'll leave you to check who was on the teamsheet. Based on this, I agree Harry went with it too often, but it has worked for us, so no reason why it can't again. For the way we want to play the squad needs strengthening in those areas, can't you see that, the gulf in talent between the 'first 11' and the rest is quite obvious. I also think injuries were forcing him to play a few weird ones, if they'd come off he'd be genius, poor player form making it look doubly ****, but there you go. We had a lot of draws in that period indicating that despite controlling games, we were not clinical enough, exposing the achilles heel of a world class striker. The Goons have RVP, we have Jermain Defoe, you can bitch all you like, thats why they're 3rd and we're 4th. The team was exceptional for 20 odd games, I'm still waiting for an answer as why anyone thought that could possibly continue through the season? You just keep blaming Harry and his tactics....
We can only speculate about the reasons for the 'blip' and the reasons you suggest smart are very plausible. Add to that the England speculation and you have a typical situation for things to go wrong. What can go wrong will go wrong and so on. What we can see with our own eyes is what happened on the pitch, still a matter of opinion of course, but at least we are dealing with facts in the sense of what the team did or didn't do. Others have talked about the odd or lack of tactics, the playing of players out of position, defensive line ups against lower opposition at home and so on. All subjective comments which people may or may not agree with. What is clear and not open to dispute is the very poor run that occurred, coinciding with Cappello's resignation and Hodgson's appointment. Whether or not the England situation or smarts suggestions of Buses and Lennon are the reasons doesn't in the end matter. What matters is that the bad run happened and the manager in public first claimed it was not happening, then said we were unlucky and then that we were tired. In other words he either did not believe it was happening or he could not see what you could do about it. It's not impressive management is it, which ever way you look at it.
Well, Harry is being blamed for the simple reason that our spectacular fall from grace "just happened" to coincide with his blatant courtship of the England job. The figures speak for themselves. Yes, I agree that there's a gulf in talent between the first 11 and most of the rest. We don't have much strength in depth. Why we have hung on for so long to some players, only Harry and Levy know. However, the fact remains that we surrendered a full 13 point advantage to lose 3rd spot. Harry and some of his tactics WERE to blame, IMO. And that of many others.
City pipped United and Arsenal pipped us. Which teams were playing mostly 442 and which with two defensive midfielders? Who scored the most goals out of the pairs? 442 is the PROBLEM not the solution. 4231 and 433 are also both more attacking formations and nothing to do with parking the bus. They free players like Modric to do harm (compare where Iniesta, Silva and Mata play). But we won't look good playing 4231 until we've got used to it. Fortunately we've started having a go at it which should stand us in good stead next season.
I do hear you Spurf, on the face of it, it doesn't look or feel good, and its fine you feel that strongly about it. But on the other hand, he's had a personally draining 6 months, could have been in a morgue or a cell! Yes its disappointing, but i'm just prepared to cut a little slack. When you sit down and recall all thats happened, from riots to Muamba, its amazing we've finished 4th...no? Even by Spurs standards that was one weird season.
As has been said on another thread, you could feel a bit more sympathetic if he would put his hands up and admit that a good part of what happened was down to him Instead of "reminding" us constantly how lucky we are.
Who said anything about all this, sorry mate this isn't about specifics and i don't really want another pile of formation stuff, i find the subject boring. Your reference to parking the bus is lost on me...I said teams who park the bus against us and not being able to break them down, remember those games, what formation was used?... just to put that one to bed. Iniesta has Messi to aim at, Silva has Aguero, Mata has Drogba. Has Modric been **** lately then? despite having Jermain Defoe in front of him. Players win games not numbers.
We played a lot of teams who got 10 men behind the ball, The games we dominated were too many to mention. However we played the same way against them 'week in week out'. My biggest frustration was the lack of shots. I fully admit i am no tactician but then nor is Harry!
As NSIS says a little humility from Harry would help. Frankly when he talks to us as though we are halfwits and expects that to be fine it's difficult to sympathise. Spurcat obviously thinks highly of him and he has met him. If I knew him I might think he was a diamond geezer, but I don't. I can only go on his all too many comments to the media and they do not impress me to say the least. Fair play smart I understand what you are trying to do, but that reflects on your tolerance as a decent bloke more than anything else. Judging by the recent poll I posted slightly less than 30% of us are unhappy with Redknapp so he has a sizeable majority on his side. Minorities always have to shout louder it's in the nature of things. At the moment Redknapp spouting off to the media is like a red rag to a bull for some of us and probably will be for some time yet. Anyway you started me off again with your post
It was the England job, and not jumping ship to another club, with some of the vitriol, you'd think it was. I'm not disagreeing with anyone it isn't a factor, or Harry's reaction since, embarrassment and now avoidance is more likely! I said back in Feb, i didn't think he suited the 'Burton' side of the job, the media glossed over that bit, and I think he might have to....the FA were never going to. He's a silly old sod who's had a massive and public kick in the balls, a statement of apology or humility would be nice, but isn't it enough everyone knowing when you've made a tit of yourself. When we've made ourselves look a nob in our own lives, we just want it forgotten, don't we? I just can't and won't accept only one reason for the dip, there were other factors and timings. If Levy says otherwise, and brings in a better manager, fine by me. Anyway, just watched Harry on SSN at an award ceremony with Hodgson, as RH was given his, Harry said don't give it your goalkeeper he'll drop it!
Our ppg with Lennon starting was remarkably similar to our ppg without Lennon starting, in fact I think it was slightly worse when Lennon started. So it doesn't seem from that he's any magic cure.
Our ppg with Lennon starting was remarkably similar to our ppg without Lennon starting, in fact I think it was slightly worse when Lennon started. So it doesn't seem from that he's any magic cure. In fact Lennon didn't start in three of our best performances, Toon and Pool at home and Norwich away. In two of them he didn't feature at all. I became a convert to Lennon starting games towards the end of this season, but we're well capable of performing brilliantly without him and badly with him. It's generally agreed that our worst and most damaging performance in our recent run was Norwich at home, and guess what Lennon started in that one. in many ways even worse than that one was our failure to beat bottom club Wolves at home, dropping two extremely costly points. Guess what, Lennon started in that one too.
As it is in your words 'an impossible task' the only alternative is using the squad you have with new tactics and formations.
Harry not coming out and saying NO Never Not in a mmillion years will I be leaving Spurs, that would have killed the england speculation immediately. That uncertainty about who will be managing the team caused your blip, uncertainty
The experimental evidence we saw of that didn't work though mate, so imo it isn't the only alternative. GH- you're getting into statistical specifics again with ppg, that don't tell the full story, it doesn't account for AL coming back too quick, and p[laying in games not so effectively, an error in itself yes, but no reason to believe we're worse or no better with him the side. A fit n flying Lennon works for us, and we have all seen that.
No it isn't the only alternative agreed. I was talking in the context of Lukes remarks. Another alternative would be to have a tactically astute manager.
I don't think we chose to keep most of the possession, Notso. When we played Swansea we showed that we prefer quick passing open football but inevitably when so many teams turn up with a backs against the wall mentality abandoning the wings to play very narrow and packing 10 behind the ball at all times you have little option but to try and stay patient, passing it around and hoping to draw one or two out of position. Poor work attacking and defending set-pieces really killed us again, I believe. Stoke, QPR, Wolves and United all scored the opening goal against us from a set piece and having already been so defensive they made it even tougher to break them down as they already had the goal they needed, had we scored the opener from a set piece I think we'd have gone on to win them all comfortably, possibly with the exception of United.
