Just been listening to Talksport going on about grass roots football. David Pleat was saying some real sensible thing about how the current set up not bringing on good enough home nation talent. Now my boys being playing football for some 9 years from 7 a side to 11 a side. I did find it absolutely ridiculous that they started playing 11 a side games on FULL size pitches at under 11's, it was pointless having a corner as the kids didn't have enough oomph to get the ball into the penalty area. Now I know that the FA are changing this, so kids only start playing a full size pitches at under 13 level. So my thoughts are where are we going wrong? Is it that we try to bring the 11 a side game in too quick for our youngsters? Is our coaching good enough? Whats everybody's thoughts on kids football, I know some on here have youngsters involved in grass roots games so be interesting to have other peoples views.
I love grass roots football and believe me there is some talent out there but unfortunately it is not like it was years ago. you even have clubs now with foreign kids in them brought over to play. Our kids have less chance now of ever making it into the big time unless they really show something special. some kids dreams are being shattered at the early age of 9 to 11 because they are over weight and to me that is cruel and unnecessary at that age. Kids are not given a fair chance at that age as clubs only want instant ability instead of what it use to be before the foreign invasion of players of nurturing and developing any skill that these kids have....they are told far to young that they are not good enough and to a kid that is soul destroying and can ruin that kid for life.....
To be honest PGF his Saturday team, don't really. He's now playing for Fareham Town on Sundays which is in the FL Pyramid and they are heavily linked into the FA at all levels. He's down with Pompey but you can still see the clubs in turmoil even down at his level. The coaches are tidy enough people and enlist in the pass and movement game, triangles etc which is what were all used to. Iv'e see lads he's played with down at Pompey really progress into full Academy and not have the same talent as him. I'm not being biassed as he's my son, but I've see the likes of Guy Witinghams boy and Oxlade Chamberlains brother all progress and believe me Witinghams boy is shocking. I'm a believer in playing the game simple, if players are in a better position than you give them the ball etc, bit like Leon in a way plays the game nice and simple. But you hear coaches on sidelines lambast there players for doing this very same thing. How the hell will a kid learn by this sort of behaviour. Dai has some very valid points, I do feel that some kids are blessed with talent and it comes naturally to them, but some are workers who take time to develop and can be equally as good. Me I do prefer a worker, as you know that they will give it their all, the talented ones at times feel they don't need to bother.
Now compare that with Spain where they have a national strategy on how to play the game and from an early age kids play football to suit that system. Spain has 10 times as many coaches qualified to the highest level than in the UK - and most coach at U11 level. As long as you have dunderheads like Trevor Booking in the FA then the English football team can pi.ss in the wind in their quest for football trophies.
I do believe that the game up to under 13 should be on small pitches smaller ball and the ethos should be pass and movement, ball control etc. But until coaches buy into this philosophy we will struggle to get a real crop of world class british players. Brazil and Spain don't let their kids near a full size pitch until they are at least 13 years of age.
I totally agree - but the FA have to sort the coaches/coaching out first. That will take a decade before fruition.
Dont you think sometimes there is to much coaching, we are trying to coach talent out of our kids, what is or was wrong with wingers running at fullbacks and taking them on. Everything is based on short passing, while i agree with a passing game lets not stop those with a talent from running with the ball from doing so. The other issue i have is that all coaches are taught from the same coaching manual. Why, are we taking the flare out of coaching as well. Just my basic views on a couple of things. The big issue goint to 11 a side was that the boys went from almost no rules to having to learn everything. Why the faw didnt at 11 increase pitch sizes along with some of the rules and then build up slowly till the boys are aware of all or almost all of the rules. (mind you I was impressed how quickly they did learn them). Pgf however I totally agree with you regarding the fA, Why not get young forward thinking people in there to strategies about the future of our game.
There's a similar thread on a few boards at the moment including ours, my experience with my lad at your COE was that he wasn't fast enough they dropped him because of a lack of pace at 13 years old, the coaches said all other aspects were really good. That's not a dig at the COE though as it seems there is a mentality throughout young kids have to be big strong and fast or clubs are not interested. My lads at Cardif now and it seems the same there. Both Cardiff and Swansea need to pool the talented kids from South Wales and take better care of them, who knows when one of these kids may start showing that he is capable of that step up.
TLF - "Overcoaching" may as well be described as bad coaching - because if it coaches talent OUT of the kids then it defeats the object. Good coaching, a clear strategy and the development of individual natural talent (in a team game) are parts of the recipe for any Club/Country to be successful. Can any of us tell what the coaching strategy of Wales or England is? Does it vary depending on who is coaching the team? Which country has the most natural talent - most would say Brazil. But who has been most successful in recent times? Spain. If you get it right OFF the pitch, in terms of coaching, organisation and administration, success will follow ON the pitch. England has probably got some of the finest training facilities in the world - but if you have got dunderheads behind the scenes with no organisational skills then you will be beaten consistently by "inferior" teams who have a better set up.
I agree PGF, look at England now have one of the finest facilities around with St Georges, but as mentioned the coaching methods are antiquated. I tend to agree that everything these days has to come out of the coaching manual, to me we coaches need to be a bit more dynamic and think outside the box (Sorry about that). We need them to develop their own training methods etc. I look at England and them replacing Stuart Pearce at under 21 level with Gareth Southgate, now to me Southgate did naff all as a club manager and he's being entrusted to bring in and develop the future England stars. To me by appointing him they have gone backwards, and it's another one of jobs for the boys appointment. Now if they had appointed Hoddle then I could see the reasoning's why.
Not enough 5 a side pitches Not enough 7 a side pitches No communication between clubs and schools Too much emphasis on results No games at all where there are no goal posts Clubs not encouraging kids to stay later Local media not hyping kids leagues Regional TV not even interested in promoting kids leagues Parents not being told to keep their noses out No reward for getting games at 'smaller' clubs The problem is endemic everywhere on this island, it is not a single organisations problem... It is much much worse than that because everyone is responsible and the England new shiny building is not going to change a thing. Who'd have though pitches without goal posts would turn France and Spain into World Cup and Euro Championship champions? Despite the rest of Europe copying that (except Italy and look at them, worse than England in the competitions!!!!) England still doesn't have a single legitimate pitch like that which is designed to improve the players passing, spacial awareness, decision making etc. purposely taking the result and scoring out of the equation and encouraging those amazing through balls and loops over the top into boxes from the age of 7... SEVEN! We don't need to adapt, we need to frigging evolve at this rate!!!
Too many parents / coaches forget the simple philosophy for anything that you do as a hobby , and that you do it with a smile on your face (figuratively speaking ), the game is thrown at kids from a very early age with kids now being picked up by clubs at 7 years of age FFS ,it's either played now in a controlled environment (local clubs or at higher level) or not at all .How often do see kids in the local parks 15 a side games, no wonder kids turn away from the game because they become bored if all they've got is structured football at such an early age .I'm all for coaching but as long as it doesn't turn the players into robots & removes any individualistic talent & I'm afraid those coaches are few and far between. One example which shocked me was last Sunday ,during an Academy u10's game a player was loudly criticised for shooting at goal (which went over the bar),now this player since returning to training in June ( 5 week break ? thats another story ) has on a Monday night training for 1 & half hours, been practicing shooting at goal from all angles ,he then takes all that he's been taught into a game and is then bollocked trying something that as a striker should come naturally.I wonder if he's ever in that position again will he look to pass the ball on ? There's a cull of players each season and one kid (aged 9) was dropped from the Academy because one of the reasons given ( I kid you not) when trying to beat a man he always cut inside without variation .This kid is extemely talented and will stand out in local junior league football but I thought the purpose of any Academy is to develop players ,if they're after the finished article then they're in the wrong job. This Sunday the U10's are playing Cardiff's at Treforest , I've watched them a couple of times now and the Swansea way of coaching is team based whereas Cardiff do encourage individual talent and it'll be interesting to see how the kids have come on since last season .
Out of curiosity Bony, do you know where on the Swans website I can easily find information on our youth sides?
the whole set up in the uk is all wrong and we should stop foreign youngsters joining clubs that british kids should get the benefit from. and stop telling kids they will never make it under 13 years of age as they cant possibly tell at that age. you can tell if a youngster has some special abilities but not all as most kids take longer to mature and show their qualities. At 9 years old what do they expect from most kids and should not shatter the kids dream until they are at least old enough and had enough time to mature, they will find it hard anyway to be told you will never make it so what they expect a 9 year old to feel like is unacceptable....
Agree Dai, kids are resilient but it's never easy to get over rejection .The lad I referred to is playing local junior football now and hopefully enjoying himself , he was invited to go to cardiff but that is a big commitment for the parents as they train 4 nights a week and so his father declined .The way I look at it if the kids talented enough and not spoiled by poor coaching methods then he could get picked up again in the future .We tend to forget that there are huge opportunities for playing at a good level by playing semi pro and that for some is satisfaction in itself
