http://www.fifa.com/worldfootball/clubfootball/news/newsid=1608576.html?cid=rssfeed&att= Some interesting points raised
It's a very good read. I would like to know how much influence Carra and Gerrard had on Rafa leaving as I heard there was unrest amongst the senior players at the club. Many will argue that he has a poor record in the transfer market but a majority of the time when he signed his first target or spent big money on one player, he got it right and that built a fantastic first team with the likes of Torres, Reina, Agger, Skrtel, Aurelio, Arbeloa, Alosnso, Mascherano. And he got 82 points and 86 points in the league ... I'd kill for that right now. Put simply - he was made for the club.
"LFC-009 It's a very good read. I would like to know how much influence Carra and Gerrard had on Rafa leaving as I heard there was unrest amongst the senior players at the club. Many will argue that he has a poor record in the transfer market but a majority of the time when he signed his first target or spent big money on one player, he got it right and that built a fantastic first team with the likes of Torres, Reina, Agger, Skrtel, Aurelio, Arbeloa, Alosnso, Mascherano. And he got 82 points and 86 points in the league ... I'd kill for that right now. Put simply - he was made for the club." Spot on mate. If Carra and Gerrard were being bad apples because they didnt like his 'man management' that is pathetic to be honest. The club being successful HAS to come before anything! We had Benayoun saying how badly he was treated but then we have the like of little Luis Garcia saying he was the best manager ever in a recent tweeting thing with LFC fans. In fact he said without doubt it was Rafa
was is the pertenant word there. Lets not revise history guys. Rafa came to LFC first and had to learn an awful lot, he signed penner, bellamy (thug version) crouch (can't score version) morientes and quite a few others like kronkamps and josemi... but he learned and we gave him time. His best signing was alonso early on and he rescued maschernao, plucked arbeloa from nowhere, brought in agger and skertl too, finally reina. Most of all he got his one big moeny but in torres and had a team to acheive with. Then it all went tits up. the owners for one but also his own ability to alienate everyone. Lets be clear G&H gave him no new funds BUT BUT they were willing to run the club into the ground (dangerously, worngly carzily) giving wages out to every player. Torres and gerrard got anything they wanted... jovanovic, kewell the list goes on and on. If rafa didn't alienate or piss off so many he cuold have kept his team together better and most improtantly not fallen apart... Thats my view and i'll stick to it. He learned form the time we gave him, had instant success too butt hen the trophies dried up but the team came together and was something that looked like ti could do something... I just think he lost it a bit and i can't really hark to the rose tinted glasses i think some people see him with. If we give another man the same time we maybe will see antoehr team come together. A carling cup aint a CL but its all we got for now. Add an fa cup to that and i think the recipe for giving time has to be there. In my view i think carragehr is no saint at all, i think an image of his professionalism has built up but there are those little hints about what he gets up to out there for those who want to look and then theres gerrard whom we all know can play if he'd bother himself and get his head right.
I lost all respect for Yossi because he said he had a falling out with Rafa but then still left the club after Rafa had left? Never quite understood that one. The likes of Reina, Agger, Skrtel, Mascherano, Torres - all genuine top class players who never had a bad word to say about Rafa. Rafa always gave you a chance if you had the talent and more importantly, had the attitude and desire to work hard and succeed. He was never the type of manager to make you laugh or put an arm around you - he was more concerned with making you a better player than being a friend. Players like Riera and Yossi were quick to speak up about Rafa but where are they now?
MITO - to be fair, the cups dried up but the league performances were on the rise (until the last season). 82 points and 86 points is a fantastic achievement whether you win the league or not. With regards to your comments about alienating individuals - please see my above comment. I mention that the genuine top class players never said a bad word about Rafa because he made them better players and they were willing to work hard for him.
yes they did, as i said the team came together. I do think the thing was on the slide for longer than one year though. 2007 was a cl final and not to be sniffed at, rafa also got to a carcling cup final in 2005.... on top class players. ALONSO. keane was a bad mistake as he wanted him then for some reason decided to treat him worse than you would a dog poo on your shoe. I'll never understand that os keane made a vital contribution to that second place while torres and gerrard were injured. There is an element here of players who won things loving him... players later on didn't have that. there's an element of the key players being looked after and fringe being not so well looked after... thats quite natural actually. i agree that a list of players like benayoun, crouch, bellamy, pennent, rieira and also keane are not world beaters but look at the moeny invested there. thats an awful lot for him to just turn on guys. on the other hand if you are pikced allthe time (add kuyt to your lift) I don't see anyone being critical when they are picked basically. I think maschernao had a deal with rafa to go and i wonder what would have come out had he been blocked by rafa. alonso just has too much class to say something becasue he again got the bes tout of the deal in the end anyway. He built a team but it fell apart under him. had he kept a few guys more happy i think just maybe he'd not have blundered into aquliani and keane and indeed if he'd kept keane he'd not ended up with n'dog playing and finishing 7th. He is a legend for 2005 and 2006, he got close but i do feel, and can't see me ever changing my mind, that his ego ran away with him. I have to wonder if he will ever manage a top side to glory again honestly. If he goes to chelsea he will ruin himself cos RA won't take his style at all.
Mito I respect your posts and you make extremely valid points and argue your points well But let me ask you, did the players look happy on Sunday (and have they for some time)? Can you imagine, in the next 2-3 years us reaching another CL final? The players need to pull their bleedin socks up, how have they not had the motivation in the past 7 games? Its pathetic
I think we are a long way away from those days to be honest. I think our best XI could be up there but we are vulnerable when we have injuries which are inevitable when you have Agger and Johnson in the team. We just need to keep building and progressing. I still feel that this team isn't that bad but just need some firepower up front and some confidence.
let me say one thing. rafa is the past, kenny is today. there is and should be no comaprison. I could not imagine us reaching a CL final with our without rafa for at least 5-10 years given the damage done. as for players looking happy.... did ANYONE look happy in the last days of rafa's last season? did they? losing 2-0 to a hapless pompey on a frozen pitch with maschernao getting himself sent off? nope. but then players never look happy losing... they looked wuite happy in wembley though and i honeslty think half them are only thinking about the semi coming up. as for the point on agger and johnson...... well we waited 5 years to get hyppia and got ten out of him. if coates works out like i perosnally think he will we'll have done good business. mertesaker is an example of what can happen just as easily. As for johnson... well we had kelly too and both are injury prone but when you've no left full at all and the res tof the team to rebuild thats the thing you have to accept too... we have both good right backs injured right now, we lost agger to a broken rib. we're paying for it. I'd much rather eknny pick coates and forget carra but he's not going to so i accept it. I think rafa would do the same frankly. as for being a long way from those days? we're a lot closer than we were 15 months ago! I'm willing to give it another 15months.
I haven't read it yet but Rafa loved the club and fought like any fan would've fought because he was one of the few who knew what was really going on behind the scenes. Without his mixing it we wouldn't have known and there'd have been no fan pressure to oust H&G. It ill-behoves fans to blame Rafa for it - looking at you, moreinjuredthanowen. He alienated those who needed it. But players can't step in and don't like the conflict. It's all in Brian Reade's book. Carra moaning because Rafa spoke out n Athens, etc etc. Carra seemed to think it's a copout to blame the backroom strife for results. He'll learn when he gets into management. Remember when Carra threatened to leave if he was benched? Rafa was holding out on his contract, rightfully at the time, I thought, because we needed the future of Agger and Skrtel to start gelling and Carra needed to give way. How right was Rafa and how right was I? But Carra threw toys out of pram. A week later he retracted it and another week later Rafa was gone. Did his threats affect Purslow's decisions? What are the chances? Hodgson was rubber-stamped by Carra and Gerrard. They have to take some responsibility for that, too.
Well said there MFG.. There are those who should look long and hard in the mirror but that ain't gonna happen.. at least for some time anyways. Players do certainly have an effect and ultimately control in full. As we see with a London club, players can appear to choose not to perform to remove someone they are not in agreement with, it's all very political\corporatelike so it is. Maybe it is a good thing two very large egos are retiring soon?
I can't wait for Gerrard and Carragher to both retire. They have both been loyal servants for the club but the performances of late are not good enough and no long command a place in the starting line up. This would have been the case with Carra had Agger not been injured but I still find it funny how Gerrard is always in the team. Has Kenny not realised that our best performances come when Gerrard isn't starting? Is it a coincidence that our worst run is when Gerrard came back into the team? We played some fantastic football in 2011 when he WASNT playing. And I've had enough of the loyal Gerrard fans who fail to see this, they act as if he's still the best player in the team. Have they not seen his wayward passing, **** crossing, poor set pieces, and awful shooting?? He;s also far too lazy to be playing in the CM, in fact most of our midfield is lazy. I remember when we used to close down quickly and not give the opposition time on the ball.
I agree with you that Carra should not be starting. Does anybody know how close Agger is to starting training again? As for Gerrard. I was hoping that we could get perhaps this and next season out of him so as to give us time to find a replacement. However, he's not adding enough to the team or showing the commitment to justify his place. Yes we used to close down quickly but the way the game is presently ref'd leads to the kind of defence that we have been employing. It's now cover and lead into traffic. Any form of tigerish tackling is now blown-up for as a foul - even if the ball is won!
