Greater Manchester Police chief constable Sir Peter Fahy says football does not need policing GMP chief constable Sir Peter Fahy has claimed football would be better off without a police presence on matchdays. Sir Peter â speaking in the light of the Hillsborough report â said sports such as rugby league managed well without his officers. He suggested their presence at football might encourage âan atmosphere of rivalry and antagonism between fansâ. Sir Peter also claimed: - United and Liverpool fans indulge in unacceptable verbal abuse; - Some clubs had been lucky not to have their stadiums shut following violence on the terraces; - The Hillsborough cover-up had âshamedâ policing â but the culture had changed since the days when âthere was a notion it was the job of the police to control the lower classesâ. Sir Peter called for a change in the culture of football, saying fans had to look at their behaviour and âthe atmosphere that is createdâ. He said: âThe worst place for it is Manchester United versus Liverpool matches, and we cannot just accept that. âYou can go to social events in this city and hear things said about people from Liverpool that nobody would say about black people, or the Irish for example. Both clubs need to look at this.â Mr Fahy said football could learn from other sports, where matches often go unpoliced. He said: âThe biggest example of this is at the DW Stadium in Wigan. âOne week you can have a Wigan rugby league match, and a huge crowd without a police officer in sight. âThe next it could be Wigan versus Aston Villa, a match which I attended, and there are officers everywhere. âWhy do we still need so many police officers and security staff at football matches? Does this prevent or rather does it encourage the atmosphere of rivalry and antagonism between fans? âWe should set an aim of getting police out of football matches.â Sir Peter admitted that scenes of violence at football stadiums were not punished in the same way as other venues, like pubs and bars. He said some clubs had been lucky to escape closure, adding: âAt the recent Bury versus Preston match we got a call for extra officers because of trouble there. âIf that had happened in a nightclub we would have looked at reviewing its licence and perhaps closing it down.â http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereven...-need-policing
I can see this angle, did that rugby game for 70,000 people at it? We're there people there just to cause trouble as with a lot of football matches is another question worth asking. The two sets of fans are very different if you ask me. We need to look at it logically, the police were not there to police the lower classes, hooliganism was fookin rife and this has led to the police presence. Whole towns and parts of cities were getting destroyed after matches and fans running amok. Problem is, it takes a very small initial group to instigate massive trouble. People are pretty decent by themselves but put a crowd together and add a few dickheads and well.. Only when fans can prevent this crap amongst themselves will police not be needed as it gets proven time and time again that we cannot be left to our own devices, well some of us
Well there's you're answer. If it was another large crowd venue thats patrons continually caused public order offences it would be closed at least temporarily. Why does football get the "it's just a minority" excuse. It's usually a minority at Nightclubs too. It's the fact that we're talking about millions not thousands in bank accounts. But we know closures will not happen (thankfully) & there is other simple solutions that don't involve the police at all. As for "atmosphere" Well that is being discussed here & on other forums this week. The majority have to start getting proactive with the clubs. If one person in a seat can hear a person singing or chanting bile then the five round that person can hear. All 5 report it to the club, club bans person , people learn very quickly. The playground idea that "touting" is some kind of betrayal to our group or class is ridiculous. the betrayal is when someone from our club(can only talk as a LFC fan) mocks tragedy or wishes death or harm on others. If you have seen the faces of those families this week and can walk away intending to revel in the misery of other families similar pain just because their sons wore a different shirt or scarf: well, you don't belong in a football ground, ever again.
Contentious but interesting point. I think if the clubs were punisihed more with points deductions it'd certainly help.
exactly, we need to be able to manage ourselves if we do not want to be managed by the police. Probably it is up to the clubs to also then have their own people in the stands to remove offenders there and then also, they make enough money from us they should be taking action to prevent people who pay to see the team from hearing that cra@p especially kids.
As MFG has said fines or points deductions. Surely something can be set up (independent body not the FA or PL, don't trust them) like the "secret shoppers" How hard would it be that these secret shoppers can insist on being placed in any stand in any ground or as close to as possible, with a scarf round their necks identifying exact sections of the stands where chants occur. Gives club a warning, x amount of reoccurrences and it's a points deduction. Same on the way to grounds, secret fan with scarf danders along the routes , continuous trouble witnesses by home or away fans? Warnings & ultimately points deductions. Yes there will always be thugs who will continue to wear the shirt they don't care about & cause trouble, but these people are known by name by those that are real fans, if they're are named often enough, the police can put one of those bans on them being near a football ground on match days. If they're picked up by cctv breaching it, police can arrest at their leisure! I'm sure there are flaws in all this but tinker with it & it's got to better than seeing nothing but peelers on natch day?
Instead of having high profile policing what about low profile. Taking DirtyFranks mystery shopper style idea, plain clothed police or support officers placed in stands looking for trouble makers/chanters and a well trained security team that quickly ejects such a person from the stands.
May have a point that seeing the police can antagonise. However no police could be a disaster if there becomes a problem in the ground.
Modern policing at games, imo, is quite a slick operation. At Anfield I've never really noticed much of a police operation but in actual fact there is a fair amount going on - I once found myself in the little custody/police office underneath the stands at the NE corner of Anfield and it was absolutely buzzing there, CCTV footage of the crowd, couple of piss heads in holding cells, and radios going from fans who had been involved in bust ups and or creating disturbances during the match, meanwhile whilst watching the game (imo) I've never noticed their presence affecting the match, so that's got to be a good thing?
Number of points here. First of all, I think it's a bit presumptious to say that all football fans come from the "lower classes", and a bit patronising to infer that those of us who do " need controlling". There has long been a culture of antagonism and potential (if not actual) violence in the game- the reasons for this are many and complicated. The only way to achieve a police free environment would be a complete change in that culture, and that will take time, and the will to do it. The suggestions about a more discreet police presence are worth thinking about, but at the moment it would be disastrous to reduce their presence to the extent where they become ineffective should trouble occur. This could result in even more injury and possible deaths, and we've all had enough of that. As I say, it's a cultural thing- people need to be more respectful to each other within the parameters of club rivalry. Perhaps we should set an example on here by not calling each other "****ing ****s" for having a different allegiance or opinion?
Yep, a whole load of work goes into policing a game with a lot of that being concerned with crowd safety that would be similar at any event attended by 40-50,000 in a relatively small arena. There is also the "crime" reason for police presence eg drunk and disorderly so again this is similar to other events apart from the fact that the police are much harsher at footy grounds. I have seen people absolutely wasted at rugby and cricket matches yet the police have have done nothing, I have even seen "loutish" behaviour at rugby but still the police have essentially just told them off. So yes whilst we do need to put our own house in order as fans the idea of no police at a game is just farcical and saying so at this time just smacks of trying to divert attention away from the police.
No way, that's a disgrace, and verging on entrapment. Fans should self-police for the most part. If you find certain chants really offensive (aww), then tell the person singing it to stop. Segregation is already well enough enforced with the huge areas fenced off with tarpaulin, and some away areas are walled in these days anyway. If some dickhead in jeans and a jacket started dragged a Leeds fan away just because he has a badge in his pocket, I'm pretty sure the people around wouldn't stand for it, and rightly so. The Police do piss fans off, and them and stewards should stay out of the stands unless they need to protect stadium property (e.g. seats being torn out). For most games, there's hardly any animosity anyway. You go to Sunderland vs Arsenal and it's hardly gonna be carnage if there are no police.
yea, def. I can't see policing at football being harder than any other even with thousands of people (rugby in particular), I wasn't around during the 80's so can't comment on what it was like then but I find going to footy games no more "hooligany" than rugby matches
It obviously was bad in the eighties but I started going to away games in the late 80's and only came very close to trouble once. and that copper is talking about now not then.
Privatisation has fooked up many industries, notably most the railways, but if there's one organisation that needs fooking up by being privatised it's the police. G4 are utterly incompetent and inherently flawed, but at least they're accountable and don't pay senior staff the same wages as doctors and bank managers to simply blame others when they fook up. And the joy doesn't stop there - they retire in their late 40's on pensions that could pay for a staff nurse or a social worker. Fook them, privatise them. And the royal family. And judges.
If they're paid by the taxpayer, **** that. Let football fans be FFS. Most fans have cottoned on now that if they want to fight, it's best to do it away from women and kids in the stadiums, and just do it in town after the game. In the meantime, let them chant what they want and self-police. The notoriety of certain stands (Shed, Stretford, Kop, Gelderd, Holte, North Bank) is clear. If people don't understand they're going into a passionate end, it's their fault. Don't need a government agent masquerading as a fan to tell us that.
